Korean Job Discussion Forums :: View topic - stupid religious nutjob soldiers

Speak Korean Now!

Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!

Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"

FAQ

Memberlist

Usergroups

Profile

stupid religious nutjob soldiers
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next

Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author

Message

On the other hand

Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:46 am Post subject:

Quote:

The CEO of Coca-Cola isn't a government employee and, in the scenario you mention, his yelling that isn't on government time. The Marine in question did his little stunt on military time.

Right. That makes the marines' actions actually WORSE than the Coke CEO's. I think we agree on this issue. I'm against what the marine did. I just used Coke as my example because I thought that a comparison with the corporate world might drive home my point.

bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:47 am Post subject:

Are they anything like Immature Radioactive Samurai Slugs?

bookemdanno

Joined: 30 Apr 2008

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:20 pm Post subject:

Bobster blathered:

Quote:

It's pretty much exactly what Queda has been accusing the west of wanting to do: destroy Islam. Is this kind of behavior more likely to create fanatical suicide-bombing terrorist, or less likely? Gee, I dunno, let's flip a coin.

So a few soldiers engage in a little proselytizing and you justify Islamic zealotry and terrorism on this basis? Even for you, that's an astonishing leap of judgment.

Oh, and please lose your avatar. The M*A*S*H tents rolled up a quarter century ago. Rolling Eyes

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:36 pm Post subject:

bookemdanno wrote:

Bobster blathered:

Quote:

He's not justifying Islamic terrorism. He's pointing out that it's likely to inflame things even more. Naive soldiers doing that kind of stuff plays right into the hands of their enemies.

ultra

Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Location: Book Han Gook Land Of Opportunity

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:51 pm Post subject:

bookemdanno blew it and wrote:

Oh, and please lose your avatar. The M*A*S*H tents rolled up a quarter century ago. Rolling Eyes

Hawaii Five-O made its final appearance twenty eight years ago...

Season 12, Episode 20: Woe to Wo Fat
Original Air Date: 5 April 1980
The series concludes with the final showdown between McGarrett and Wo Fat. Three scientists have gone missing.
They have one thing in common: they all attended a symposium that discussed a possible space-based, laser defense system.
McGarrett impersonates a fourth scientist, Dr. Elton Raintree, who attended the same gathering and is soon abducted.
Wo Fat is behind it all and wants the scientists to complete their work and produce such a device.

On the other hand

Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:05 am Post subject:

Big_Bird wrote:

bookemdanno wrote:

Bobster blathered:

Quote:

He's not justifying Islamic terrorism. He's pointing out that it's likely to inflame things even more. Naive soldiers doing that kind of stuff plays right into the hands of their enemies.

Bobster even referred to Islamic terrorists as "fanatical", which is not typically the kind of terminology used by an apologist for Muslim terrorism.

Steve:

You agree that handing out bible coins in a Muslim-majority war zone, at the same time that your government is working overtime to convince Muslims that there's no anti-Islam campaign afoot, is really bad p.r., don't you? And would you also agree that the fact these soldiers felt perfectly at liberty to push their religious propaganda in a war zone maybe indicates that the US military has some discipline problems that need serious attention? If you can agree with those two points, I don't think we have much to argue about.

bookemdanno

Joined: 30 Apr 2008

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:58 am Post subject:

ultra noted:

Quote:

Hawaii Five-O made its final appearance twenty eight years ago...

Cool is never out of style and McGarrett is the ultimate cool guy. The DVDs of the show were just released by popular demand, by the way. I liked MASH and still do: I was being sarcastic because the peace sign is such a tired symbol. Now if he changed his avatar to the peace sign sexy legs with the helmet on the finger, that'd be cool.

Big Bird chirped in:

Quote:

He's pointing out that it's likely to inflame things even more. Naive soldiers doing that kind of stuff plays right into the hands of their enemies.

Yeah, I got that. And only those with a leftist mindset believe that terrorists need a legitimate excuse to ply their despicable trade.

OTOH wrote:

Quote:

And would you also agree that the fact these soldiers felt perfectly at liberty to push their religious propaganda in a war zone maybe indicates that the US military has some discipline problems that need serious attention? If you can agree with those two points, I don't think we have much to argue about.

Is it helpful in the campaign of hearts and minds? No, it isn't. Is it worth getting worked up over? Hardly, unless it was authorized by big brass or became a widespread practice.

Frankly, it just indicates an intense need to find anything to cast American military personnel in a bad light. Too bad the European media and some of the North American media can't manage to dredge up the hundreds of great stories of our soldiers trying to help the locals. But that would require them to set aside their little agenda.

The Bobster

Joined: 15 Jan 2003

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:07 pm Post subject:

bookemdanno wrote:

only those with a leftist mindset believe that terrorists need a legitimate excuse to ply their despicable trade.

You know there's really no commerce going on between these people, right? So, what exactly is it that they are trading? Um, and what does my leftist midset have to do with whether these Christian coins are going to convince sincere and nonviolent adherents to Islam that the West is really and truly trying to kill their faith, just as Queda has been telling them?

Why not just answer the question I posed: Is this kind of behavior more likely to create fanatical suicide-bombing terrorist, or less likely?

I'm so sad that you don't like my avatar. Excuse me while I go cry in my pillow about it. I did so very much want to please you.

Quote:

OTOH wrote:

Quote:

Is it helpful in the campaign of hearts and minds? No, it isn't. Is it worth getting worked up over? Hardly, unless it was authorized by big brass or became a widespread practice.

You've probably worked so very hard to forget this guy - okay, it was going on 5 years ago - but here are some pearls of wisdom from a Lt Gen Wm Boykin:

In one speech, he recalled a Muslim fighter in Somalia who said he had the protection of Allah against US forces.

"Well you know what I knew, that my God was bigger than his," said Lt Gen Boykin. "I knew that my God was a real God, and his was an idol."

By the way, according to wikipedia: "it was Boykin who, under Donald Rumsfeld's orders, advised then Camp X-Ray head Major General Geoffrey Miller in Guantanamo to transfer the same Camp X-Ray methods to Abu Ghraib and the Iraqi prison system." Sweet guy, huh? Full of the milk of Christian charity and love, I guess we'd have to say ...

Hey, you wanted to know if what the soldiers are doing had any authorization from the big brass ... I've got a better idea than those silly coins - let's have all our guys wear this t-shirt when they are out on patrols.

Quote:

Frankly, it just indicates an intense need to find anything to cast American military personnel in a bad light.

The largest bulk of the photos taken at Abu Ghraib have never been shown to the public, only to selected members of Congress who all agreed it would be a mistake to let anyone else see them. Hey, I know. Let's get our hands on some of those.

And then, let's bookemdanno ... war crime trials, anyone?

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject:

Boykin probably is a good guy . However to the topic US soldiers ought to never preach religion to anyone in foreign lands not only is it dangerous it is just unfair to the people of the nation. It will be viewed as an attack on their culture and a way of life and in a way it is.

OneWayTraffic

Joined: 14 Mar 2005

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject:

Quote:

As an atheist I find the irony amusing. Why is it that all Gods are idols except the ones your parents told you about when you were 2 or 3, long before your mental defenses were in place?

tomato

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:06 pm Post subject:

I never could get that story about Elijah testing the Babylonian god. Upon Elijah's instructions, his followers prayed to the Babylonian god and sure enough, nobody answered. Why didn't they also try praying to Jehovah and seeing if he would appear in a cloud of smoke?

The Bobster

Joined: 15 Jan 2003

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:05 pm Post subject:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

Boykin probably is a good guy .

However to the topic US soldiers ought to never preach religion to anyone in foreign lands not only is it dangerous it is just unfair to the people of the nation. It will be viewed as an attack on their culture and a way of life and in a way it is.

Just, "in a way?" If you put on a uniform, you are representing the US govt, and if you preach your version of the word of God while wearing it in a foreign land (especially as part of an occupying force), you are lending the full faith and credibility of the US of A to your own particular religious beliefs.

However, you probably took an oath to defnd the Constitution when you took on the job as soldier as your vocation - separating church and state is a big part of that, so you are simultaneously breaking your oath when you try to proseletyze your own faith while wearing your dress blues.

In a very real way you are not only attacking their culture, but your own American culture as well.

That's not even addressing the support for and encouragement of torture ... I think I respect The Man From Galilee more than Boykin does, but what the hey.

By the way, not only did Rumsfeld refuse to admonish or reprimand Boykin, he was allowed to serve out his career and retired in 2007.

Boykin is probably a nece fella. I'm sure he'd be glad to lend me his lawn mower for the weekend if I asked to borrow it, and I'll bet his wife makes a delightful peach cobbler. He's not a good American, though, not by a long shot.

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:23 pm Post subject:

The Bobster wrote:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

Well I ought to have said it was a threat to their way of life. I was actually agreeing with you.

as for the rest

If the US govt got rid of every soldier who went over board as much as Boykin then the US would be unlkely unable to to have an effective fighting force. That means the enemies of the US . That is a far more terrible outcome. He is a good american.

The US has not behaved worse in this war than in other wars. Itr doesn't behave worse in war than other nations.

Bob did you ever see the movie mississpi burning?

http://kr.youtube.com/watch?v=G1JX07MCCL4&feature=related

The Bobster

Joined: 15 Jan 2003

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:39 pm Post subject:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

He is a good american.

He's a lousy soldier because he broke his oath to defend the Constitutione when he used the authority granted by his uniform to preach his version of the God's word.

Mississippi Burning is important, disturbing and very well-made film, one that intends to provoke the mind even while it outrages and tears at the heart. I'm glad the land of my birth is one that can create art like that, and I'm not sure what connection it has to the phenomenon of American soldiers pushing their personal faith upon people in foreign lands.

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:56 pm Post subject:

anyway the point about the movie can be expressed in this thread. http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=1606599&highlight=#1606599

Display posts from previous:

	Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next
Page 2 of 3

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe