Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Ebes]

1) If the school supplies us with two contact emails, and when you email the second to begin talking, and the first responds, saying the second is too busy, is this a warning bell?

1a) am I being unreasonably paranoid?

2) If you sign and scan only the first and last pages of a contract, how is it legally binding? they could take that signature and attach it to the first contract we received from the school which has no changes - Has this happened?

2a) am I being unreasonably paranoid?

[Nowhere Man]

Who are they contacts for?

Regardless, probably hard to say.

I think it's a but paranoid, but still a healthy amount of caution to be asking.

For the contract, are you saying that you stipulated changes?

If so, then I think there's a fair danger of someone saying, "Yeah, OK, no problem", and then not seeing the changes materialize on arrival.

I don't think that's paranoid.

Anyway, see my previous post. A big chain school is gonna have a standard contract that has been in use for a long time.

[Ebes]

they are current teachers at the school. The second guy didnt respond at all, and we received answers to the questions we asked him from the first guy.

yes. we stipulated changes, two revisions in fact, and the recruiting agency we are dealing with only requires the parts of the contract which need writing and the signatures scanned and sent over to the school. Im thinking that they might just use that fact to avoid giving us all the things we agreed to, reverting instead to the initial formula version of the contract.

The solution I'm going to try is to sign and get them to send us a scanned copy with their signature on it too, so we have a copy signed by both of us.

Is this even relevant if its a crooked school?

[Cerriowen]

[Ebes]

Thank you for this advice. I've read a bunch of other posters who have said similar things.

I can't wait to get over to Korea and start building up a good relationship with the people at my school.

[maingman]

ttompatz wrote :


Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject: newbies, recruiters and contracts (repost)



This is a repost of 2 of my oft repeated rants about recruiters and schools/contracts.

For old hats, there is nothing new.
For newbies - a nickel's (3 pence) worth of free advice.

IF you think this is too long to read, you probably shouldn't be coming here or thinking about working in Korea cause you will probably get burned in more ways than you can imagine.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
POST 1:

Really, when it comes to a recruiter, who cares?

A recruiter is nothing more than an introduction to an employer.

REPEAT: A recruiter is nothing more than an introduction to an employer.

Hello Mr. English speaker this is Mr Hakwon owner.
Mr. hakwon owner, this is Mr. English speaker.
Mr. English speaker, here is the contract. Please read and sign.
School, here is the signed contract. Pay me.
Good bye.

-You are not paying them anything (or you shouldn't be).
-THEY DO NOT WORK FOR YOU! - They work for the school.
-They owe you nothing once you get here.
-They are not your friend.
-They are not your baby sitter.
-They cannot help you if things go to *beep* after you get here.

Beyond that it is YOUR responsibility to check the school out.

Do NOT trust ANY recruiter. They are like used car salesmen. They will lie and sell their soul to get the signature on the contract.

Do your own DUE DILLIGENCE in regards to the school or get burned.

Use the recruiters for what they are. Use more than one and keep going until you get what you want. There is no rush and there is certainly no shortage of jobs.

When it comes to the school - again - repeat - Do your own DUE DILLIGENCE.

1st - READ the contract over very carefully. If that doesn't scare you away then...

The best you can do is minimize the risk by talking to MORE THAN ONE of the foreign staff and ask POINTED AND SPECIFIC QUESTIONS (*when the boss is NOT listening over their shoulder). Don't accept non-specific answers and broad generalizations.

No foreign staff references to talk (directly and via e-mail) to = walk away now.

Accept NO EXCUSES for any reason.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
POST 2

Do your own DUE DILLIGENCE in regards to the school or get burned.

There is no rush and there is certainly no shortage of jobs.

When it comes to the school - again - repeat - Do your own DUE DILLIGENCE.

1st - READ the contract over very carefully. If that doesn't scare you away then...

The best you can do is minimize the risk by talking to MORE THAN ONE of the foreign staff and ask POINTED AND SPECIFIC QUESTIONS (*when the boss is NOT listening over their shoulder). Don't accept non-specific answers and broad generalizations.

No foreign staff references to talk to = walk away now.
Accept NO EXCUSES for any reason.

The hard questions to ask AND get acceptable answers to ARE:

-What are the hours? (start time / stop time / breaks).

-How many classes per day, week, month? NOT hour many hours per month. 30 classroom hours can mean anything from 1350 -1800 minutes per week standing in front of the class. The difference can be up to 7.5 HOURS in front of the class EACH WEEK.

-Do they ALWAYS pay on time? (no=red flag 1)

-Do they pay at the end of your month or do they have a hold back period (5-10 days after your month end) to prevent runners? (no=red flag 2)

-Do they really pay overtime or avoid it with creative book keeping? (no=red flag 3)

-Do you get credit for classes on the national holidays or do you get the day off but still have to work your 120 hours before you get overtime? (no=red flag 4)

-Do they have national medical (with the little booklet)? (no=red flag 5)

-Do they pay into pension? (no=red flag 6) These two are legal requirements (not optional) and are usually NOT complied with (to your detriment).

-What about the holidays? 10 or more WORKING days? (legal requirement here) (no=red flag 7)

-When and how do you get your holidays?

-What extra stuff do you really have to do - mentioned or not in the contract.

-Then consider the quality of life issues - things that are important to you that aren't mentioned here (housing, furnishings, THE BATHROOM, access to recreational facilities, shopping, banking).
Do they take additional deposits in addition to the delay in payday? (yes=red flag Cool

I would also like to mention for comparison:

My co-worker who is a green as grass, fresh of the boat newbie gets a base salary of 2.1 mil per month for 22 classes of 40 minutes each.
She gets 20k won for each 40 minute class over 22 per week and works from 8:30-4:30 each day. She usually averages 26 classes per week and her salary works out to about 2.5 mil per month.

She also gets (as required by law and ignored by most hakwons) NHIC medical, pension, severance, non-shared housing, airfare and 4 weeks annual PAID vacation.

Do NOT be in a rush to sign anything. There is NO rush or urgency in spite of what you may have been told.

Take your time. The job (or more likely a better one) will still be there next week and probably next month too.

There are 30,000+ openings in Korea each year and less than 20,000 applicants to fill those jobs each year.

I hope that has been of some help.

.
8888

[chickyabroad]

[Ebes]

I've managed to determine that the second contact does exist, and is just uninterested in talking to me, and also I've been able to get in touch with another teacher at the school, thats 3 people who work there who couldn't think of anything horrid to say - According to the director, there are only 4 foreign teachers at the school, (a relatively small one at that), so thats 75% of the teachers who are neautral or plased (in their email personae)

I'm actually starting to feel good about my decision - ZOMG - I thought we were all supposed to be taken advantage of! Hah! (I'll post again once I've been screwed : | )

[loose_ends]

[wylies99]

OP, you take your time and make 100% CERTAIN that you feel comfortable before you accept any teaching job in Korea.
If you feel uneasy about a certain hagwon, then move on to another. There are thousands of open positions.
Don't let any recruiter pressure you, either.