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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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Join Me
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
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 Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| I am an American and I am not surprised by this a bit. Last night I watched Michael Moore's movie "Sicko" about the state of the health care system in my country. Two things struck me. One, he makes a good point about the fact that the American people are afraid of their government, not the other way around. Two, he makes the point that Americans are now paying the price for their individualism. As Americans, we have become so concerned about "me" that we don't even know how to act as "we" any more. If it doesn't benefit "me," we just keep on walking. It doesn't matter that this guy was in the street bleeding for only a minute and a half. What matters is that in that minute and a half anyone could have helped him and didn't. |
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Zaria32
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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Joinme...
What twaddle... |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Join Me wrote: |
| I am an American and I am not surprised by this a bit. Last night I watched Michael Moore's movie "Sicko" about the state of the health care system in my country. Two things struck me. One, he makes a good point about the fact that the American people are afraid of their government, not the other way around. Two, he makes the point that Americans are now paying the price for their individualism. As Americans, we have become so concerned about "me" that we don't even know how to act as "we" any more. If it doesn't benefit "me," we just keep on walking. It doesn't matter that this guy was in the street bleeding for only a minute and a half. What matters is that in that minute and a half anyone could have helped him and didn't. |
Dude, that's not what Michael Moore was saying at all. Watch the movie again. He wasn't saying people were afraid of the government. I think you don't really understand American history. America has for a long time been a country where people hate taxes.
As far as this happening, Americans often are more readily to admit when they screw up. The shame was clearly expressed. Yes, America does have horrible problems, and the more people admit them, the better things might become, I hope. Simply living in denial doesn't work, you know. What happened to this man was tragic. Maybe, it was an accident and the other man panicked, but you don't run away like that! |
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Join Me
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Zaria32 wrote: |
Joinme...
What twaddle... |
Really? Take a look at yourself. So self absorbed the most you can offer is, "what twaddle." |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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What about these facts?
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| ...four people dialed 911 within a minute of the accident, and that Torres received medical attention shortly after that. |
In any case, I have seen similar situations, not usually so traumatic, of course, everywhere I have lived. The threshold that usually finally provokes people to intervene in this or that situation seems to be quite high.
People like our friend here, Join Me, seize on such stories to lauch into morally superior tirades. But when they, for example, hear people talking on their cell phones in the cinema or what-have-you, I wager that 19 out of 20 lack the courage to actually stand up and say something about it -- and that is just in the movies. |
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Join Me
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| Join Me wrote: |
| I am an American and I am not surprised by this a bit. Last night I watched Michael Moore's movie "Sicko" about the state of the health care system in my country. Two things struck me. One, he makes a good point about the fact that the American people are afraid of their government, not the other way around. Two, he makes the point that Americans are now paying the price for their individualism. As Americans, we have become so concerned about "me" that we don't even know how to act as "we" any more. If it doesn't benefit "me," we just keep on walking. It doesn't matter that this guy was in the street bleeding for only a minute and a half. What matters is that in that minute and a half anyone could have helped him and didn't. |
Dude, that's not what Michael Moore was saying at all. Watch the movie again. He wasn't saying people were afraid of the government. I think you don't really understand American history. America has for a long time been a country where people hate taxes.
As far as this happening, Americans often are more readily to admit when they screw up. The shame was clearly expressed. Yes, America does have horrible problems, and the more people admit them, the better things might become, I hope. Simply living in denial doesn't work, you know. What happened to this man was tragic. Maybe, it was an accident and the other man panicked, but you don't run away like that! |
Huh? I can watch that part again and find you a quote but he clearly states that he believes the American people have become afraid of their own government. He gives the example of the French who are willing to hit the streets to protest anything their government does which the people oppose and that the French government fears the people and their protests.
And we Americans are able to admit when we screw up? What are you talking about? The invasion of Iraq has been proven to have been based on lies. We are still there! |
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Join Me
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
What about these facts?
| Quote: |
| ...four people dialed 911 within a minute of the accident, and that Torres received medical attention shortly after that. |
In any case, I have seen similar situations, not usually so traumatic, of course, everywhere I have lived. The threshold that usually finally provokes people to intervene in this or that situation seems to be quite high.
People like our friend here, Join Me, seize on such stories to lauch into morally superior tirades. But when they, for example, hear people talking on their cell phones in the cinema or what-have-you, I wager that 19 out of 20 lack the courage to actually stand up and say something about it -- and that is just in the movies. |
So four people dialed 911 and then let an old man lay in the street alone until EMS arrived. Afraid their "Latte" might get cold while they actually get involved? That is a heartwarming story of human compassion. I guess he should be thankful for that though.
Last edited by Join Me on Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Join Me
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| Join Me wrote: |
| I am an American and I am not surprised by this a bit. Last night I watched Michael Moore's movie "Sicko" about the state of the health care system in my country. Two things struck me. One, he makes a good point about the fact that the American people are afraid of their government, not the other way around. Two, he makes the point that Americans are now paying the price for their individualism. As Americans, we have become so concerned about "me" that we don't even know how to act as "we" any more. If it doesn't benefit "me," we just keep on walking. It doesn't matter that this guy was in the street bleeding for only a minute and a half. What matters is that in that minute and a half anyone could have helped him and didn't. |
Dude, that's not what Michael Moore was saying at all. Watch the movie again. He wasn't saying people were afraid of the government. I think you don't really understand American history. America has for a long time been a country where people hate taxes.
As far as this happening, Americans often are more readily to admit when they screw up. The shame was clearly expressed. Yes, America does have horrible problems, and the more people admit them, the better things might become, I hope. Simply living in denial doesn't work, you know. What happened to this man was tragic. Maybe, it was an accident and the other man panicked, but you don't run away like that! |
Michael Moore also makes the point that we Americans have become so burdened with debt (before we even enter the workforce due to college debt) that we have no choice but to go to our jobs day in and day out like passive little sheep. Let me guess...that is not what he was saying...right?
What about the rescue workers Michael Moore took to Cuba to get the medical care they were being denied in America? Again, maybe I didn't interpret that correctly but I think he was saying in America we don't even take care of our heroes! What about the vets that are returning from Iraq? Surely their health care needs are being taken care of by the government they risked their lives for. Right? Right?
Last edited by Join Me on Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:23 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| You know, I have no first aid experience so I would be very wary of even touching someone who was knocked down like that. I would call an ambulance though. Maybe thats what happened. I probably would have waited by him for it to come though. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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Nowadays i would probably have stopped and thought hard about what to do. I think I would have stood in the road to alert traffic, signalling them to stop. But I would have stood near the side of the road - ready to jump back in 
But if I was only 19 or 20, I might have walked on by, not knowing what to do, following the example of all the other people doing the same thing. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Join Me wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| Join Me wrote: |
| I am an American and I am not surprised by this a bit. Last night I watched Michael Moore's movie "Sicko" about the state of the health care system in my country. Two things struck me. One, he makes a good point about the fact that the American people are afraid of their government, not the other way around. Two, he makes the point that Americans are now paying the price for their individualism. As Americans, we have become so concerned about "me" that we don't even know how to act as "we" any more. If it doesn't benefit "me," we just keep on walking. It doesn't matter that this guy was in the street bleeding for only a minute and a half. What matters is that in that minute and a half anyone could have helped him and didn't. |
Dude, that's not what Michael Moore was saying at all. Watch the movie again. He wasn't saying people were afraid of the government. I think you don't really understand American history. America has for a long time been a country where people hate taxes.
As far as this happening, Americans often are more readily to admit when they screw up. The shame was clearly expressed. Yes, America does have horrible problems, and the more people admit them, the better things might become, I hope. Simply living in denial doesn't work, you know. What happened to this man was tragic. Maybe, it was an accident and the other man panicked, but you don't run away like that! |
Michael Moore also makes the point that we Americans have become so burdened with debt (before we even enter the workforce due to college debt) that we have no choice but to go to our jobs day in and day out like passive little sheep. Let me guess...that is not what he was saying...right?
What about the rescue workers Michael Moore took to Cuba to get the medical care they were being denied in America? Again, maybe I didn't interpret that correctly but I think he was saying in America we don't even take care of our heroes! What about the vets that are returning from Iraq? Surely their health care needs are being taken care of by the government they risked their lives for. Right? Right? |
You know, Mack, look at how you are dealing with America and consider how you were dealing with Korea. There is no balance there, Joinme.
Yes, Americans and also Canadians are burdened with debt. That has to do with certain capitalist forces encouraging people to be too much of a consumer society which goes against the capitalist type thinking that their grandparents had who didn't think you needed to have so much to be happy. We're going down the wrong capitalist highway and the whole world is being affect. Also, university is costing way too much money.
I agree that there should be universal health care, but many people feel they shouldn't work two jobs as they say, so you can go to the doctor.
Some might think that's being uncaring. In a way, you could argue it would be like leaving that pedetestrian who was hit and not doing anything. We are sometimes shocked by things that are very obvious, but not about the deeper things sometimes.
I am not going to say we have a more callous world, just some people have more power to help or harm others. We should do more of the former. |
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Join Me
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| Join Me wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| Join Me wrote: |
| I am an American and I am not surprised by this a bit. Last night I watched Michael Moore's movie "Sicko" about the state of the health care system in my country. Two things struck me. One, he makes a good point about the fact that the American people are afraid of their government, not the other way around. Two, he makes the point that Americans are now paying the price for their individualism. As Americans, we have become so concerned about "me" that we don't even know how to act as "we" any more. If it doesn't benefit "me," we just keep on walking. It doesn't matter that this guy was in the street bleeding for only a minute and a half. What matters is that in that minute and a half anyone could have helped him and didn't. |
Dude, that's not what Michael Moore was saying at all. Watch the movie again. He wasn't saying people were afraid of the government. I think you don't really understand American history. America has for a long time been a country where people hate taxes.
As far as this happening, Americans often are more readily to admit when they screw up. The shame was clearly expressed. Yes, America does have horrible problems, and the more people admit them, the better things might become, I hope. Simply living in denial doesn't work, you know. What happened to this man was tragic. Maybe, it was an accident and the other man panicked, but you don't run away like that! |
Michael Moore also makes the point that we Americans have become so burdened with debt (before we even enter the workforce due to college debt) that we have no choice but to go to our jobs day in and day out like passive little sheep. Let me guess...that is not what he was saying...right?
What about the rescue workers Michael Moore took to Cuba to get the medical care they were being denied in America? Again, maybe I didn't interpret that correctly but I think he was saying in America we don't even take care of our heroes! What about the vets that are returning from Iraq? Surely their health care needs are being taken care of by the government they risked their lives for. Right? Right? |
You know, Mack, look at how you are dealing with America and consider how you were dealing with Korea. There is no balance there, Joinme.
Yes, Americans and also Canadians are burdened with debt. That has to do with certain capitalist forces encouraging people to be too much of a consumer society which goes against the capitalist type thinking that their grandparents had who didn't think you needed to have so much to be happy. We're going down the wrong capitalist highway and the whole world is being affect. Also, university is costing way too much money.
I agree that there should be universal health care, but many people feel they shouldn't work two jobs as they say, so you can go to the doctor.
Some might think that's being uncaring. In a way, you could argue it would be like leaving that pedetestrian who was hit and not doing anything. We are sometimes shocked by things that are very obvious, but not about the deeper things sometimes.
I am not going to say we have a more callous world, just some people have more power to help or harm others. We should do more of the former. |
Again. You are wrong. I knew you would try to say the standards I hold Korea to are not the same I hold my own country America to. In the case of the boy who drowned in the sauna, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF that anyone was present. We do not know what happened.
If there is some PROOF (video footage or witnesses as in this instance in the USA) supporting your theory of Koreans standing by while he drowns, I want to see it. Could this of occurred? Yes! But until we have PROOF we absolutely can not make assumptions. When and if you bring me proof there were Koreans who saw this boy drown I will be more than happy to say that is just plain sick!
For the 100th time..."healthy boy drowns" is PROOF of nothing!!! |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Join Me"]
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Again. You are wrong. I knew you would try to say the standards I hold Korea to are not the same I hold my own country America to. In the case of the boy who drowned in the sauna, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF that anyone was present. We do not know what happened.
If there is some PROOF (video footage or witnesses as in this instance in the USA) supporting your theory of Koreans standing by while he drowns, I want to see it. Could this of occurred? Yes! But until we have PROOF we absolutely can not make assumptions. When and if you bring me proof there were Koreans who saw this boy drown I will be more than happy to say that is just plain sick!
For the 100th time..."healthy boy drowns" is PROOF of nothing!!! |
Dude, it's enough that the cops don't do a thing, though it's their duty to do so. If that doesn't say anything, I don't know what does. It was the sauna owner's duty to find his kin asap. They failed to do that. Isn't that pretty bad? A whole police force doing nothing, a sauna just focusing on removing his body and taking a long time before getting his family.
You white-washed all that, so, no, I don't think you hold America to the same standard. Our police force does have corruption, but most of our cops actually do their jobs. Can you admit that? What good do you actually see in America? I see some good stuff in the U.S. Yes, I would like universal health care, but you don't seem to have anything good to say about the US. Do you? |
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Join Me
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Adventurer"]
| Join Me wrote: |
| Quote: |
Again. You are wrong. I knew you would try to say the standards I hold Korea to are not the same I hold my own country America to. In the case of the boy who drowned in the sauna, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF that anyone was present. We do not know what happened.
If there is some PROOF (video footage or witnesses as in this instance in the USA) supporting your theory of Koreans standing by while he drowns, I want to see it. Could this of occurred? Yes! But until we have PROOF we absolutely can not make assumptions. When and if you bring me proof there were Koreans who saw this boy drown I will be more than happy to say that is just plain sick!
For the 100th time..."healthy boy drowns" is PROOF of nothing!!! |
Dude, it's enough that the cops don't do a thing, though it's their duty to do so. If that doesn't say anything, I don't know what does. It was the sauna owner's duty to find his kin asap. They failed to do that. Isn't that pretty bad? A whole police force doing nothing, a sauna just focusing on removing his body and taking a long time before getting his family.
You white-washed all that, so, no, I don't think you hold America to the same standard. Our police force does have corruption, but most of our cops actually do their jobs. Can you admit that? What good do you actually see in America? I see some good stuff in the U.S. Yes, I would like universal health care, but you don't seem to have anything good to say about the US. Do you? |
Your going to have to take a break from calling me out cause I need to go for a bike ride (preventative health care). Maybe you can send George a long and heartfelt e-mail thanking him for all he has done for you during my absence. I am sure he will be happy to hear from one of the few who are currently satisfied with the state of America even if you can't afford to live there anymore. |
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