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Rumple

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
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Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:26 am Post subject: Why You Need to Have Faith in ATEK |
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Okay, a lot of folks have been saying "If ATEK doesn't do something about corrupt hagwan practices, then its worthless."
And a lot of those folks expect ATEK to come out of its corner swinging, else they are going to write ATEK off.
This is why I think you need to have faith in what they are doing:
http://www.korealawblog.com/entry/what_to_do_when_you_have_to_sue
If you read this article, it does a good job of explaining why it is important that whoever you are planning to sue doesn't know you're coming. You don't threaten legal action, you just attach their assets and THEN litigate. Legal blindsiding is the way its done here.
ATEK may be very well planning action against organizations that are causing problems for foreign teachers. They have more than one law firm working with them now. But if they are planning action, they can't rattle their sabers right now, or that will weaken their attack.
As membership grows, you can bet that a good number of members are going to be people that have been burned in hagwans. And those people are going to elect leaders that shape ATEK's direction.
Have faith in ATEK. ATEK is an instrument of the collectve will of its foreign teacher members. |
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wylies99

Joined: 13 May 2006 Location: I'm one cool cat!
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Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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Who posted that? Most just want to hear about issues, not structural blah, blah, blah that is better handled internally. |
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cruisemonkey

Joined: 04 Jul 2005 Location: Hopefully, the same place as my luggage.
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Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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Let's all hold hands and sing the 'Internationalle'. Power to the proletariat!  |
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purple_buddha
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: Why You Need to Have Faith in ATEK |
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Rumple wrote: |
Okay, a lot of folks have been saying "If ATEK doesn't do something about corrupt hagwan practices, then its worthless."
And a lot of those folks expect ATEK to come out of its corner swinging, else they are going to write ATEK off.
This is why I think you need to have faith in what they are doing:
http://www.korealawblog.com/entry/what_to_do_when_you_have_to_sue
If you read this article, it does a good job of explaining why it is important that whoever you are planning to sue doesn't know you're coming. You don't threaten legal action, you just attach their assets and THEN litigate. Legal blindsiding is the way its done here.
ATEK may be very well planning action against organizations that are causing problems for foreign teachers. They have more than one law firm working with them now. But if they are planning action, they can't rattle their sabers right now, or that will weaken their attack.
As membership grows, you can bet that a good number of members are going to be people that have been burned in hagwans. And those people are going to elect leaders that shape ATEK's direction.
Have faith in ATEK. ATEK is an instrument of the collectve will of its foreign teacher members. |
A more apt title for this post might be "Why You Need to Do Your Research"
I find it rather ironic that you've decided to reference Brendon Carr's blog. Check out his comments about foreign teacher advocacy in this post - priceless. http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=103755
If he is the type of lawyer that ATEK has in mind for legal counsel, then I have very little faith in it going forward. Are any of these supposed law firms supporting ATEK located outside of Gangnam? And, are they prepared to tackle labor issues outside of the affluent areas of Seoul?
How many Korean citizens does ATEK plan on incorporating into its staff and membership base? For that matter, how many F-2/4/5 visa holders, those foreigners with the strongest ties to the Korean community, factor into the infrastructure of ATEK? If millions of Koreans can't sway their government's policies, such as the recent importation of US beef, what makes you think that, at best, a few thousand E-2 visa holding, temporary employees are going to affect any significant change in Korean legal matters?
The White Star Line had plenty of faith in the Titanic, too.
If you don't like the work conditions in Korea, find another place to work. The average Korean perceives the typical western English teacher as a drug using and/or alcoholic, pedophile loser who is from a rich society and who is incapable of getting a real job back home. They'd just as soon be rid of you than tolerate your sniveling about the employment situation with which they've so generously provided you; as far as most Korean employers are concerned, you're already overpaid for your services.
Sucks - I know, but thems the brakes, kiddo. 
Last edited by purple_buddha on Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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cruisemonkey

Joined: 04 Jul 2005 Location: Hopefully, the same place as my luggage.
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Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:07 pm Post subject: Re: Why You Need to Have Faith in ATEK |
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purple_buddha wrote: |
The White Star Line had plenty of faith in the Titanic, too.  |
LOL... at least White Star got Harland & Wolf to build and launch her.  |
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purple_buddha
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: Why You Need to Have Faith in ATEK |
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cruisemonkey wrote: |
LOL... at least White Star got Harland & Wolf to build and launch her.  |
Darn shoddy rivets will get you every time. As Anne Robinson would say in that cheesy game show... |
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matthews_world
Joined: 15 Feb 2003
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Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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Check the labor laws.
Employers can fire E-2 visa holders who engage in any union activities. |
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wylies99

Joined: 13 May 2006 Location: I'm one cool cat!
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Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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purplebuddha- It's a good idea to have an organization that speaks for the rights of teachers and that can inform teachers of their legal rights.
This should have been done YEARS ago, but the old-timers came here for the "booze and broads" and didn't do any of the hard work of improving things for themselves and others.
I applaud ATEK for trying to do something positive. Let's just see if they get it right BEFORE flaming them into the ground, okay? |
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yeremy
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: Anywhere's there's a good bookstore.
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Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject: Why the old timers came here |
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You're generalizing about people you probably have no idea who they were and why they came to Korea in the "early days". Most of the people who came here in the 70's, 80's and even the early 90's didn't come here for the "booze and broads." That's a more recent phenomena. They came here because they were missionaries, soldiers, or peace corp workers and some were teachers for the most part.
I think there is a parallel with the two liberal Korean presidencies and the rise in interest in forming an association or a union. I beg to differ that the critical mass of foreigners was not as high as you seem to think it was even in 1993. The people who are coming to Korea to "teach" is different, too. It's apparent that more than a few association/union organizers have come recently, too. |
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purple_buddha
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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wylies99 wrote: |
I applaud ATEK for trying to do something positive. Let's just see if they get it right BEFORE flaming them into the ground, okay? |
I also applaud their efforts, but the mantra I keep reading on this board coming from ATEK supporters sounds too much like a union, "Hail to the disenfranchised English teachers of Korea!".
Flaming? Hardly. They're entitled to their opinion on how their plan will pan out, and I'm entitled to mine. Unions get quashed in Korea, even NGO's perceived as such. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
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Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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The problem is that most people don't stay very long. And of those who do, most don't NEED a group like ATEK. A F-2 or F-5 visa gives you pretty much those freedoms and for those who don't have the visa, they've made other connections and have a "network" to use.
Eventually most people will leave ATEK. Others who come will want to join a strong functioning organization. The longer ATEK takes or even exists without doing anything positive for foreign teachers like taking on a few bad hakwons the less people are likely to join. "You've been around for how many years...and what have you done?"
But ATEK can not become a strong and functioning group without many members...so it's a catch-22.
And if ATEK against all the odds DOES become a group...then how long will it take before the hakwon assocations get together and with all their Korean workers, lobby the government to ban this group?
Who is the Korean government more likely to listen to? Thousands of their own voters or a few hundred temporary foreign workers?
Bottom line. Faith, like respect, is earned not given. So far ATEK has done nothing to earn either.
To put it another way. "Talk is cheap, whiskey costs money" Or maybe that's too old a reference for you young-'uns so here's a more modern one.
"Show me the money!" 
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:21 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
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Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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wylies99 wrote: |
purplebuddha- It's a good idea to have an organization that speaks for the rights of teachers and that can inform teachers of their legal rights.
This should have been done YEARS ago, but the old-timers came here for the "booze and broads" and didn't do any of the hard work of improving things for themselves and others.
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There wasn't that much decent booze and easy broads around in the old days. You young fellows likely get far more of either than us "old-timers". And attempts were made... read chronicpride's post about EFL-guy.
Anyway good luck...you're going to need it. |
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wylies99

Joined: 13 May 2006 Location: I'm one cool cat!
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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:23 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, but I'll be fine.  |
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dmbfan

Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:33 am Post subject: |
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Unions get quashed in Korea |
Mainly because there are so many downtrodden, negative pussies who refuse to stand up for themselves.....and others.
Which equals much of the ESL population in Korea.
dmbfan |
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wylies99

Joined: 13 May 2006 Location: I'm one cool cat!
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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:44 am Post subject: |
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Well put, dmbfan.
Urbanmyth- The oldtimers here are the ones who can down the booze.  |
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