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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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 Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:29 am Post subject: |
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We'll have to vehemently disagree there IG, because for me Eastwood smothers his actors with his banal directing.
Yes, he covers a lot of genres - with really mediocre results. I would have played down Firefox if I were trying to sell the director as being good at his job. What good movies Eastwood directed were long in the past, and were those in which genre expectations did half the job for him.
To say you can't compare directors is just ridiculous. Why the hell not? By that logic we can't compare movies, actors, football teams.... Of course we can compare, and for my money Spike is the better director by a mile. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
| I don't see Spike Lee bashing Spielberg for the lack of Negroes in Saving Private Ryan or Band of Brothers. |
Right. Lee seems to have been "criticizing" Eastwood since at least as early as when the latter produced Bird in the late-1980s. There is something else here under the surface. Why has Lee decided to harass Eastwood re: the films he produces? Personal animosity/grudge? |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe this is what has you guys all het up ... seems to me, maybe it's not really what the guy says, but rather it's about who he is.
MSNBC Reporter Calls Spike Lee "Uppity."
But it's not racist, because she didn't say the "N" word. Therefore, we can relax. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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Gopher
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| ROFL. That certainly explains why Moore became red-in-the-face irate on Wolf Blitzer, Bobster: people just did not respond to his "satire" as he had hoped they would... |
I thought his reaction was pretty mild when you consider that Blitzer and CNN had been unquestioning cheerleaders for the Iraq invasion and that so much of what Moore had said in that earlier movie turned out to be true, including the way the media failed to ask the difficult question leading up to that war. The surprising thing is not that Moore got irked when his credibililty was questioned by these, of all people, but rather that he did not get more so.
Actually, the notion that America needs satirists like Moore and Stewart and Colbert to tell them the truth is something that ought to make everyone angry, and looking back at that whole skirmish - it was last summer, and it's here - I think Moore was quite restrained. Watch the video to the end and you get to see CNN's financial correspondent compare Moore to Hugo Chavez after Moore's satelite feed was gone and he was safe from having to offer his target a chance to reply.
That sound like responsible journalism to you? Yes, well, to you it might. To me, it displays a unique form of cowardice, to assert or imply a lack of patriotism toward a person when they are not there to look you in the eyes and challenge you back. But that kind of thing is pretty typical, really. Sure happens to me enough times around here.
The media hates Moore because he's doing their job for them, raising debate and discussion about matters that concern Americans - Blitzer and Dobbs and their like cash their fat paychecks in exchange for not asking the difficult questions and for trash-talking people like Moore who do. He makes them look bad, so no surprise they sharpen their knives when he comes around.
Then, irony of ironies, they criticize Moore for making money on his films ... now, ain't that just the cutest thing
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| when I being up your preachiness, your politics, etc., that I am somehow deviating from this pure state of exchange. |
Well, you're deviating from the topic, that part is definitely true, and when you begin a sentence with "I suspect that you, too, Bobster, remain more interested in forcing everyone ..." we can all be pretty sure that whatever you have to say next is not only irrelevant but the purest bit of invention on your own part.
I think we're going to have agree to disagree about this, actually. I'm not nearly as important as you think I am.
Why do you bother? Well, because you have been wrong about things on many occasions in the past, wrong about things in the present tense in many instances, and likely to be wrong about other things in the future - and you'd probably rather I wouldn't be so lacking in taste as to point out when you are wearing no clothes. And you will not admit your error - it springs from an erroneous worldview, and there's too much mental furniture that would have to be rearranged - so you try to make the discussion about me because you'd rather I'd just go away.
But, Gopher, I can't do that. I love you too much, man. It would be unkind of me to just abandon you and allow you to wallow in the filth of the wrong assumptions you base your life on, and to fail to point out the bad news that you've been fed crap so long that you enjoy the flavor better than real food. I don't pity you, because you've done this to yourself - your constant negativity is bound to be a source of sadness in many areas of your life - but I will do what I can to help you.
Well, whenever I have a free moment or two, anyway. There are limits to how much of my life I can devote to such a large job as you represent, and sometimes I'd rather go out and have a nice dinner with friends instead of reading the poison that comes out of you. But, I do have hope for you - I've seen cases almost as bad as yours get better over time. It might happen, perhaps some day when I'm not here to see it.
(Naw, I'm just kidding. Everyone knows you are a lost cause. I was being kind just now. And satirical, of course, though as a conservative you will have trouble discerning it when you see it, so I guess I'd better point it out with a big black and yellow arrow and an eclamation mark....)
 satire alert 
| Quote: |
| Bobster: this impulse to control and dominate others' artistic endeavors and especially their ideology becomes not only predictable but inflammatory -- as Eastwood's latest and well-justified reaction to Lee's harping on him as early as the late-1980s to today demonstrates. |
No one's trying to control Clint Eastwood. You are hallucinating.
People can talk about a movie. People can criticize a movie, even harshly - though Lee did not, and you are wrong again, no surprise - and in the end people get a fuller idea of the events and issues presented from hearing more than one side of things. If anyone is trying to control or dominate, it might be people like yourself who'd rather not hear Spike Lee's opinions.
I think neither of us have seen the film, so we're just commenting on other comments that two filmmakers have made in public, and you are having even more fun commenting on ME. (Wow, how impressive I am!) None of this is really very important ... except for the parts about how consistently wrong you are in so many ways.
But, even if your case seems pretty hopeless to me, Gopher, don't despair. It's true that you might never really understand, because you are enjoying your errors so wonderfully, but there is always the chance. Good luck with it, anyway. (Can you guess which parts of what I'm saying are ironic satire? Are you having fun trying to guess?)
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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So, now uppity is racist eh? Or what?
How about this:
You white-guilt obsessed flunkies can make a list of words that white people MAY use when speaking to black people. Keep in mind that not every situation is a rainbow, ergo some negative words (though, of course, not "uppity") will need to be kept in.
Also keep in mind that a separate list needs to be made for every -- no matter how tiny -- "group" on earth. You all better get busy. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| So, now uppity is racist eh...? |
Mises: Bobster is a very, very "sensitive" guy who likes to tell himself he has a sense of humor. Consequently, a lot of things appear "racist" to him, especially those of us who lack his "sensitivity," do not share his "humor," and fail to recognize "the truth" that Hugo Chavez, Michael Moore, and co. reveal about America.
Did you not know, Mises, that other very sensitive types have already debated such points in the media...?
Scene from Clerks II
And, in any case, Spike Lee on Eastwood strikes me as "uppity," indeed. And, to cite another example of such uppityness, I much prefer the way that Miles Davis handled Wynton Marsalis's uppityness not so long ago...
| Quote: |
| What might seem surprising is that Marsalis, an ardent student of jazz history, avoids any nods to Davis's earlier score on the same subject. Of course, Marsalis is the leading figure in a movement among jazz musicians that has turned firmly away from just the sort of electronic and rock- or pop-inflected experiments that Davis championed in albums like Jack Johnson. And the two trumpeters have had a rather fraught relationship. In the early 80s, Wynton was a rising star in the jazz scene, and his playing was often described, depending on how well the critic liked it, either as a new development in or a knock-off of the style of acoustic jazz Miles had been playing in the early to mid 1960s. Davis, then in the twilight of his career, did have some kind words for the younger man, but they were publicly critical of each other as well. Marsalis disparaged Davis for abandoning acoustic jazz in favor of jazz-rock fusion, and Davis sniped that Marsalis was spending too much time playing classical music and not developing his own improvisational voice. In an infamous incident at the Vancouver Jazz Festival in 1986, a producer apparently tried to orchestrate a poignant intergenerational moment by having Wynton come up on stage to jam with Miles's band, but Miles would have none of it, stopping his band and crudely telling Wynton to "get the *beep* off the stage..." |
All About Jazz
Of course, Bobster will not be able to comprehend how an insensitive, racist guy such as myself could possibly know much about jazz or admire Miles Davis or have read and reread his memoirs, Miles. C'est la vie. Hard to penetrate such simplistic, black-white worldviews as he shows. |
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cangel
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Location: Jeonju, S. Korea
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| The Academy Awards should give us an insight into who is a better director although I frequently disagree with them. And, as we all know, a brother can't get no respect from a bunch of uptight white folk. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| So, now uppity is racist eh? Or what? |
It always was.
You've never known any black people have you? Next time you meet one, try calling them uppity. See what happens.
And, in case you are wondering, it's sexist when used to refer to a woman, also. It means someone who is not willing to accept the station that life has paced them in - which, of course, is subordinate to white males.
None of this is new.
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| And, in any case, Spike Lee on Eastwood strikes me as "uppity," indeed. |
No doubt.
| Quote: |
| Of course, Bobster will not be able to comprehend how an insensitive, racist guy such as myself could possibly know much about jazz or admire Miles Davis or have read and reread his memoirs, Miles. C'est la vie. Hard to penetrate such simplistic, black-white worldviews as he shows. |
Even with the arrows and exclamation marks, irony and sarcasm are still a really big challenge for you, aren't they? (Never called you racist. Never did.) And you still think this thread is about me, don't you?
Now I have to put on my sad face.
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
| I don't see Spike Lee bashing Spielberg for the lack of Negroes in Saving Private Ryan or Band of Brothers. |
Spike Lee lives in fear of the Jews.  |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| So, now uppity is racist eh? Or what? |
It always was.
You've never known any black people have you? Next time you meet one, try calling them uppity. See what happens. |
Sure. Will do.
Now, when I apply douchebag to an uppity, oversensitive and feminized white man, is that racist too? |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Stop being so uppity, young man, and learn how to treat your betters. |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Actually, uppity by that definition seems to be quite a fitting term in some contexts. It's not much different from short man syndrome or the phrase He just has a small pen is. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| djsmnc wrote: |
| Actually, uppity by that definition seems to be quite a fitting term in some contexts. |
There's a long history of this term being used among racist Southerners to denigrate and "keep the darkies in their place."
I watched the video and I couldn't believe her parents never taught her better than this - I think it's likely just a case of youthful ignorance, like the time when Bill Clinton was running the first time and an airhead MTV interviewer asked him who his favorite jazz musician was.
BC: Thelonius Monk.
MTV: Really? Who was The Loneliest Monk?
It's probably more a case of someone insulting themselves unintentionally by displaying ignorance of things that people really ought to know ... eh, mises? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| Stop being so uppity, young man, and learn how to treat your betters. |
That link is for "uppity+nigger", "not uppity". If you want to prove your point, you shouldn't have to use one of the --if not THE -- most negative words in the English language in combination with "uppity".
| Quote: |
2 definitions found
uppity - WordNet (r) 2.1 (2005) :
uppity
adj 1: presumptuously arrogant; "had a witty but overweening
manner"; "no idea how overweening he would be"-
S.V.Benet; "getting a little uppity and needed to be
slapped down"- NY Times [syn: overweening, uppity]
uppity - Moby Thesaurus II by Grady Ward, 1.0 :
43 Moby Thesaurus words for "uppity":
arrogant, audacious, big, brash, bumptious, cold, condescending,
contumelious, cool, disdainful, domineering, familiar, forward,
haughty, high-faluting, high-flown, high-headed, high-nosed,
hoity-toity, hubristic, insolent, insulting, lofty, obtrusive,
overbearing, overpresumptuous, overweening, patronizing, presuming,
presumptuous, procacious, proud, purse-proud, pushful, pushing,
pushy, self-asserting, self-assertive, stuck-up, superior,
toplofty, uppish, upstage |
[url] http://onlinedictionary.datasegment.com/word/uppity[/url]
If I call a black dude "stupid", by your little slight of hand, I've just said this:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=stupid+nigger
Which seems kinda dumb. A black dude can be both uppity and stupid without it having anything to do with his genetic makeup. Just like a white guy or Chinese guy or a moon-man. Sometimes, a word is just a word. And sometimes a white guy is an oversensitive little flower. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:10 am Post subject: |
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You better send these people a message, quickly ... oh, too late.
Courtney Hazlett, MSNBC Talking Head, Calls Spike Lee "Uppity"
Huffington Post
| Quote: |
Update 4:19 PM EDT: MSNBC.com has just released the following statement from Courtney Hazlett:
"Today on 'Morning Joe' I chose my words poorly in describing the relationship between Clint Eastwood and Spike Lee. I take my responsibilities as a journalist seriously and know that words can have a strong impact. I sincerely apologize to Spike Lee and to the viewers for my comments." |
More:
Think Progress
The awful implications of this racially loaded word.
Something tells me you're going to say that Msnbc ought not to have "caved" to the pc-police, and that the woman ought not to have apologized. Go ahead. After all, you know more than I do, more than they do, more than anyone else.
And I'm wasting my time trying to teach you things that everyone else already knows.
| Quote: |
| Sometimes, a word is just a word |
Sometimes. Not all the time. And it's not up to you to decide. |
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