Korean Job Discussion Forums

[widespread123]

First off, I have to say that I want to kill this particular student. He keeps asking me grammar questions I don't know an relishes in making me look stupid. I tried to look this one up in Leech's A-Z book but to no avail. Ok, here it goes:

Our profits rose by %5.

What is the function of "by" here? I said that it means "to what quantity or degree". Like "I beat your score by 15 points"

Isn't it past participle+by+noun phrase? The example in the book was "The book was written by Tolstoy." This is in the passive voice and it is the subject that wrote the book. My student gets me, I get mad and post on Dave's.

Last question, does "by" in this case mean exactly or about? I say exactly but I am not 100%.

Thanks in advance.

[kiwiana]

It is not the passive voice. The passive voice is made up of:

subject + be + past participle

E.g., my leg was bitten

In the passive voice the subject is not the actor acting out the verb (i.e., like in the example, 'the dog bit my leg'); the subject is influenced by the verb-- that is, the leg got f*#ked up.

With the passive voice we usually use 'by' to introduce the agent.

E.g., my leg was bitten by the dog.

In your first example, "our profits rose by 10%", 'by' is used as a preposition to show the degree or amount of something.

Explain these different situations to your students.

I didn't really have a clue about grammar until I was forced to teach it at senior university level. Now, after 18 months at it, I feel that I am quite competent. When students used to ask me questions that I didn't know I would research the answer myself and get back to them next class. If you do this you will seem professional enough in your students' eyes.

I suggest that you buy Michael Swan's 'Practical English Usage'. It is the best book out there for learning and teaching grammar IMO.

[widespread123]

Does this mean it is always "exact" ? i.e. the 10% is the exact number.

[kiwiana]

I'm not sure what you mean bro...

[kiwiana]

If you say,

'Our profits rose by 10%', this means by exactly 10%. There is no flexibility in this statement.

If you say,

'Our profits rose by about 10%', this means approximately 10%. There is flexibility in this statement. Therefore, the profits could've infact been between 9.5 and 10.49%, for example.

[UberJRI]

[Cracker006]

You could say "our profits rose 10%", or "our profits rose by 10%"

I personally would think that the 2nd would be used to look at a longer term view of something.

1st one, the profits jumped 10% at once. Maybe they didn't stay there. Maybe it went back down again. In a graph chart, it would be one spike.

2nd if they rose by 10%, that would mean gradually, up and down, all inclusive... from the beginning of a time period to the end... all in all it was an increase of 10%.

Just my own thoughts.

[Thiuda]

[branchsnapper]

You could argue it has no function really, since if you leave it out the meaning is exactly the same.