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JustJohn
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Location: Your computer screen
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 Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:44 pm Post subject: Mad Cow: Fact list |
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I'd like to dedicate a thread to just the facts so people can find them quickly and easily if they so desire.
Could we make a basic rundown? I think we need at least the following:
- Number of people infected in the U.S., when, and from what meat
- Number of cows found with it in the U.S.
- Origin of those cows (I heard Canada but slaughtered in the U.S.?)
- Whether or not the cause of the problem has been addressed
- Clear, concise explanation of the facts behind the "Koreans more susceptible" idea
- For the daring, the current state of Korean beef
I know a couple of these have been addressed by doggyji and others. Let's bring them together with clear headings and stick to the facts. |
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JustJohn
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Location: Your computer screen
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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"Koreans are more susceptible" idea
Fact 1: All known cases of vCJD have arisen in individuals with methionine homozygotes (M/M) at codon 129 of the prion protein gene.
| FDA wrote: |
All cases of vCJD to date have occurred in individuals of a single human genotype that is methionine homozygous at codon 129 of the prion protein. About 40% of the total human population belongs to this methionine-methionine homozygous state. The susceptibility of other genotypes is not yet known.
Link |
Fact 2: It was statistically found 94.33% of Koreans (sample pop: 529) carry a methionine homozygote.
Hypothesis: Koreans are more susceptible to vCJD than other groups with lower MM percentage when exposed to BSE-positive cattle consumption.
*taken from doggyji's original post |
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howie2424
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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Kim Yong-sun, the Korean scientist who wrote a paper in 2004 suggesting Koreans could be more susceptible to mad cow disease, says it's merely a hypothesis, no firm conclusions can be drawn from it and his research has been twisted and exaggerated by the media and others.
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2889612
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200805/200805090017.html
Other Korean scientists say this
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Separately, 10 scientists affiliated with the Korea Institute of Science and Technology (KIST), including the nation�s leading scientist Shin Hee-seop, head of the Neuroscience Center at the KIST, held a press conference on the same day at the institute and refuted the claim that Koreans are inherently vulnerable to the human form of mad cow disease.
�The controversy over Koreans� genetic susceptibility to human mad cow disease started from the thesis of Hallim University professor Kim Yong-seon. But Kim�s study was not about Variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (vCJD), commonly known as human mad cow disease, but about sporadic Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (sCJD),� Shin emphasized.
He also added that Japan�s research results showed that Met-Met genotype, which many Koreans have, do not raise the risks of being infected with sCJD. �We cannot conclude that one is predisposed to a disease because he or she has a certain gene.�
Yu Myeong-hee, technology development director at Proteomics, tried to allay the fear over the disease, saying, �The conclusion that those people with Met-Met genotype are vulnerable to vCJD was derived from a research conducted on Britons. Except in Britain, there is no data based on which we can draw any statistical conclusion.� |
http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2008050977638#top |
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howie2424
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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The current state of Korean beef
The risk of eating beef from various countries is assessed the Paris based World Organization for Animal Health, commonly known by its French acronym OIE. It is recognized as a reference organization by the World Trade Organization (WTO) and as of January 2008, had a total of 172 Member Countries and Territories. The OIE has developed a model whereby it can assess the risk of eating beef from a particular country based on a number of factors. It places countries into 3 separate risk categories; �minimal risk� (the best ranking), �controlled risk� (the second best) and �undetermined risk� (the lowest).
The United States is currently classed in the second category �controlled risk� which, under OIE guidelines, means they are safe to export beef from cattle of any age, except for specific risk materials such as skulls, brains and spines from cattle over 30 months of age.
In 2007 Korea made an application to obtain an OIE ranking for mad cow risk of its domestic herds. Rankings are based, in part, on how many cows you�ve tested over the past 7 years. You get 0.01 point for inspecting a healthy cow and up to 750 points for inspecting a sick cow. The reason why is obvious. You should get more credit for testing cows that show all the symptoms of having the disease.
The documents submitted by Korea indicated that Korea inspected only 24,172 cows for mad cow between 2001 and 2007 and earned 96,537 points. You need a minimum of 240,000 points to get a ranking. It simply wasn�t enough by international standards. They didn't even make it halfway. As a result the OIE ranked Korean beef in the third category, �undetermined risk�. Apparently last November Korea agreed to submit further documentation to bolster its application. Those documents are still pending.
Korea will soon introduce new measures to tighten its safeguards against mad cow. On May 28 the Agriculture Ministry said this;
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| "Once the rules go into effect, the number of cattle that will be barred from butchering could jump threefold on an annual basis from 120 heads at present," |
Apparently inspection procedures also leave a little to be desired in Korea.
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| Currently, veterinarians assigned to butchering facilities have to make spot decisions, usually without the aid of detailed tests on animals that appear sick. This practice results in some sick animals being butchered and entering the human food chain. |
http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/1622384/
In addition, ruminant feed, the type of feed which, when fed to cattle, is suspected of being the source of mad cow disease, was also used in Korea up until 2004. A recent KBS documentary examined the current state of the Korean beef industry;
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KBS' "News Issue Ssam" news program recently showed a sick cow being sold on the black market and heading to a slaughterhouse. According to a livestock trader in an accompanying interview, the slaughtered cow would be sold for human consumption. The program also said Korean cattle farmers imported feed that contained meat and bones until 2004, and it's uncertain where this feed -- the type believed to be the source of mad cow disease -- was used. The producers said the purpose of the program was to show that there is no 100-percent assurance that Korean beef, or hanwoo, is completely safe for consumption.
The contents of this program are probably true. Everyone knows there are weaknesses in Korea's food safety monitoring system. Korea has not registered to be classified by the World Organization for Animal Health (OIE) on the safety of its cattle against mad cow disease, so we don't know just how safe our beef really is. |
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200805/200805160027.html
The fact is that by internationally accepted standards, consuming Korean beef is considered a greater risk than consuming US beef. They don�t do nearly enough testing and until recently employed the same questionable agricultural practices which are suspected of causing the disease in the first place. |
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howie2424
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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Number of people infected in the U.S., when, and from what meat
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| According to Britain's National Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease Surveillance Unit (NCJDSU), as of May 2008, three Americans have died of variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (vCJD) disease, the human form of BSE (humans do not actually die from BSE directly and the link between vCJD and BSE has yet to be proven). Of these three, two lived in the U.K. between 1980 and 1996 when Britain suffered an outbreak of vCJD. |
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/special/2008/06/139_25622.html |
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Matman
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| There is strong evidence that suggests that two of the three cases were exposed to the BSE agent in the United Kingdom and that the third was exposed while living in Saudi Arabia. |
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/vcjd/qa.htm
i.e. in all probability NO ONE has caught vCJD from eating US beef. |
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Matman
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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- Number of cows found with it in the U.S.
There have been no reported cases of BSE in the US since 2006. Of the 3 cases one was imported from Canada and the other 2 had atypical BSE - a type that might arise sporadically in older cattle.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/bse/
Last edited by Matman on Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:44 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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Probably one of the best facts from this article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7436914.stm
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Political price paid in beef row
By John Sudworth
BBC News, Seoul
Many people are wondering how it could have come to this.
Not least South Korea's President, Lee Myung-bak, who, just 100 days into office has shown he has the opposite of the Midas touch.
The landslide popularity that brought him to power has evaporated, the more humiliating opinion polls put his support rating barely into double digits.
The reason?
A once seemingly mundane and long running agricultural dispute has mushroomed into one of the biggest political crises in recent memory.
It is a crisis that has taken shape on the streets.
Mass movement
What started as a series of relatively small-scale candlelit vigils against a lifting of the five-year ban on American beef imports, has now taken on the air of a mass movement.
We are creating the fear of mad cow disease in our own minds. Candlelights should be used to brighten the darkness, not burn down our own homes
Lee Sae Jin, lone pro-beef import protestor
Mothers pushing prams march alongside ranks of high-pitched school children, all carrying delicate, fluttering flames through the dark Seoul night.
The symbolism is potent. It is a picture of the nation's most cherished and vulnerable under threat from a cavalier government and the poisoned, imported produce of a foreign power.
"I am afraid of American beef," one 13-year-old protester told a US newspaper reporter. "I could study hard in school. I could get a good job and then I could eat beef and just die."
This week, the growing intensity of the protests and sporadic outbreaks of violence finally forced a government U-turn.
The lifting of the ban on US beef has been put on hold.
"The essence of the beef protests is anti-American," said Keun Park, President of the Korea-America Friendship Society.
"The left-wing media has instigated the feeling that there is a good reason to fear US beef."
Age issue
Some of the claims made about the risks of mad cow disease are certainly difficult to substantiate.
South Korea's marching citizens have been worried onto the streets by widely circulated rumours that American consumers do not eat beef from cattle aged over 30 months, and that large quantities of this more dangerous, older meat will flood into Korea.
It was with reference to these fears that the South Korean government suspended the import agreement this week, saying it wanted 30-month and older cattle removed from the deal.
But according to statistics from the US beef industry, 18% of cattle slaughtered in the US for human consumption is above, in many cases well above, 30 months of age.
The meat from these animals, considered perfectly safe, is ground into beef for burgers and other such delights.
Americans, it seems, do not just eat 30-month-old cows, they eat them in vast quantities.
And according to Joe Schuele from the US National Cattlemen's Beef Association, "research shows that before exports were stopped in 2003, less than 2% of the total beef we sent to South Korea came from cattle aged over 30 months".
It is hardly a flood.
American interests
Among the more hysterical claims, of course, the fears of many South Koreans about the safety of imported beef are genuinely held.
After all, there are those in the US, both producers and consumers, who argue that there should be much more testing of slaughtered cattle than there is at present.
But central to the South Korean government's willingness to open its ports is the certification of US beef hygiene standards by the World Organisation for Animal Health.
According to this intergovernmental food-safety body, the US removes risky material from slaughtered animals, conducts adequate testing and has feed policies that control the risk and make its meat safe for export.
I am afraid of American beef. I could study hard in school. I could get a good job and then I could eat beef and just die
Young girl protesting, 13
South Korea has yet to supply enough information to the World Organisation for Animal Health to allow an assessment of its own mad cow risk to be carried out.
Hahm Sung-deuk, professor of presidential studies at Korea University, did not agree that the beef protests were motivated by anti-American sentiment, but he admitted that outsiders may well be baffled as to why it has become such a serious issue.
"People have become gradually disappointed with President Lee," he said. "There have been a series of errors."
One of the biggest ones, he said, was to give the appearance of capitulating to American political interests.
Free-trade deal risked
Politicians in Washington were threatening to scupper a US-South Korea free-trade deal - one that President Lee is championing - unless he gave them back what used to be America's third largest market for beef exports.
That he duly obliged, seemingly without consultation and with the agreement to include almost all beef products, of all ages, may have proved the catalyst for the rising public anger.
"People felt that this guy was just out of touch," Professor Hahm added. "Now the US needs to come to his assistance."
The Americans however seem reluctant to drop cattle aged over 30 months from the agreement, although some might ask why, given that these older animals make up such a small share of the export market.
Not all South Koreans agree with the candlelit protesters who continue to march through the streets of Seoul each night.
Lee Sae Jin, a 25-year-old university student, bravely held his own, one-man protest in favour of US beef imports.
He was soon shepherded away by a policeman, led off through the rather angry crowd that had gathered to read his posters.
"We are an exporting nation," he had written.
"We are creating the fear of mad cow disease in our own minds. Candlelights should be used to brighten the darkness, not burn down our own homes."
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/asia-pacific/7436914.stm
Published: 2008/06/05 01:31:14 GMT
� BBC MMVIII |
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earthbound14
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: Mad Cow: Fact list |
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| JustJohn wrote: |
I'd like to dedicate a thread to just the facts so people can find them quickly and easily if they so desire.
Could we make a basic rundown? I think we need at least the following:
- Number of people infected in the U.S., when, and from what meat
- Number of cows found with it in the U.S.
- Origin of those cows (I heard Canada but slaughtered in the U.S.?)
- Whether or not the cause of the problem has been addressed
- Clear, concise explanation of the facts behind the "Koreans more susceptible" idea
- For the daring, the current state of Korean beef
I know a couple of these have been addressed by doggyji and others. Let's bring them together with clear headings and stick to the facts. |
3 cows in the US were found to have mad cow (BSE), and 3 people had it (vCJD). The only thing strange in this is that the US is the only country to have so few cows with the disease and so many people to have contracted it. it either suggests that the testing of cows in the US was poorly done, or that they covered it up to support the beef industry...but this is merely speculation based on the statements made by one man involved in the slaughtering of mad cows....
http://kr.youtube.com/watch?v=9HWaejQDhxo
Not a bad little bit of free speech, but the entire thing hinges on 1 man...no one else has said anything, so it's not entirely credible.
The people who died from mad cow in both the US and Canada had been linked to long periods of living in the UK at the height of the problem.
Canada acquired mad cow by buying cows from the UK. It has been reported that the UK was not 100% open about the problems of Mad Cow at the time and kept exporting to Canada, Canade then exported a cow to the US. Both countries are reputed to have taken strong measures against the disease once they found out the truth. Although this has been debated....Some people claim that Canada was too lax, and that the US was also too lax. The US blames Canada and the Canadians say the US is looking for a scape goat and they have higher standards of testing then the US....the truths of the situation are debatable.
another poster mentioned that the World Organization for Animal Health has claimed both countries fit to sell beef as they both no longer feed cows to cows. The only flaw here is its link to the WTO, which has been notorious for pushing business first and health second.
Of course balancing that with the credibility of the Korean system.....well, we all live here and I'm sure most of us would hands down be in favour of most western standards without actually needing to see all the facts. Korean beef is raised in cramped quarters and a lot of anti biotics are used to try and keep them healthy. There testing has not met international standards (as expressed by another poster) which do not hinge on the economics but rather the science....basically even if you suspect western countries of being lax and too interested in making money, the Korean system doesn't even meet those standards. Korean standards should be higher if they were to claim that the US has low standards.
Canada has now confirmed that they have another case of mad cow (2008). they expect to see a few more cases though over the next ten years as they continue to work towards eliminating it
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23360165/
the US however continues to import meat from Canada and both countries are considered low risk and can export cow meat.
So if the US is willing to import beef from Canada, and Canada is very open about the cases of BSE and their method of eradicating the disease, it would be a fair assumption to say that they have standards that are high enough for what they feel is the safety of their own people.
Unfortunately I don't trust what is being used to support the idea that Koreans are more susceptible. What has been presented in the English (Korean) press has no scientific backing. It appears to be merely speculation. if Koreans are worried then they should simply say we wish to wait and do more testing to make sure. The deal between the US and Korea is not really news. Korean and the US have had an agreement to sell beef that was supposed to come into effect based on the US meeting international standards...which they did.
This is either an emotional reaction by the people or a last ditch effort by the medical community that has failed to find any reason not to import US beef and is looking to buy more time....or better still, it represents the fears of Koreans (mostly farmers) who will lose out in an FTA with the US and an opposition party that sees merit in discrediting the current president. |
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T-dot
Joined: 16 May 2004
Location: bundang
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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Koreans refuse to believe US claims that 20% of the beef on American markets - the beef routinely used in hamburgers - is from cattle more than 30 months old. The view is widely circulated here that Americans want to force Koreans to eat stuff they won't eat themselves.
At this stage, no amount of explanations and diplomacy is likely to work. Bush has talked to Lee on the phone, saying, in effect, "Ok, we won't export beef more than 30 months old," but no one here is listening. |
dont know if this is considered as fact, but interesting nonetheless.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/JF11Dg01.html |
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earthbound14
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| T-dot wrote: |
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Koreans refuse to believe US claims that 20% of the beef on American markets - the beef routinely used in hamburgers - is from cattle more than 30 months old. The view is widely circulated here that Americans want to force Koreans to eat stuff they won't eat themselves.
At this stage, no amount of explanations and diplomacy is likely to work. Bush has talked to Lee on the phone, saying, in effect, "Ok, we won't export beef more than 30 months old," but no one here is listening. |
dont know if this is considered as fact, but interesting nonetheless.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/JF11Dg01.html |
I was looking for that. It would be nice to find a more direct source though...thanks. |
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moosehead
Joined: 05 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| JustJohn wrote: |
"Koreans are more susceptible" idea
Fact 1: All known cases of vCJD have arisen in individuals with methionine homozygotes (M/M) at codon 129 of the prion protein gene.
| FDA wrote: |
All cases of vCJD to date have occurred in individuals of a single human genotype that is methionine homozygous at codon 129 of the prion protein. About 40% of the total human population belongs to this methionine-methionine homozygous state. The susceptibility of other genotypes is not yet known.
Link |
Fact 2: It was statistically found 94.33% of Koreans (sample pop: 529) carry a methionine homozygote.
Hypothesis: Koreans are more susceptible to vCJD than other groups with lower MM percentage when exposed to BSE-positive cattle consumption.
*taken from doggyji's original post |
the problem with these statements is multiple - how can one assess someone as Korean other than where they are born? there seems to be an underlying assumption that "Korean" is a genetic species of some sort - that one can "sample" Koreans and they are all (almost) clones or something?
where was the control sample? of non-Koreans? and how were they determined to be non-Koreans?
I can't even discuss this further because the eugenics crap is just so damn disgusting and obvious it's sickening.
if people don't trust beef they should just eat something else. It's not like it's the only food available - !!  |
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moosehead
Joined: 05 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:46 am Post subject: |
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just a general comment - I was interested in this post from the topic heading but am disappointed so many so-called "facts" are being derived from news articles and other dot com websites.
*suggestion: try a google search and use < - .com > at the end of your search criteria thread. you'll come up with some .edu sites, .org(s) and others that aren't making a profit over their statements and can be deemed a tad bit more reliable, at least worthy of making comparisons. |
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asylum seeker
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| howie2424 wrote: |
In addition, ruminant feed, the type of feed which, when fed to cattle, is suspected of being the source of mad cow disease, was also used in Korea up until 2004. A recent KBS documentary examined the current state of the Korean beef industry;
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Just curious, do cattle farmers in the US still use ruminant feed? |
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Lekker
Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Location: Seoul
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