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Going Godless for the Presidency.

 
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The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:53 pm    Post subject: Going Godless for the Presidency. Reply with quote

A Godless Presidential Campaign.

How hard could it be? Why would it have to be hard at all? How about if we suddenly decided that what a candidate or officeholder does on Sunday morning is irrelevant to whether he or she will get our vote.
    �I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute.�

    And, �I believe in a president whose views on religion are his own private affair.�

    That was John F. Kennedy, of course, sounding light years removed from Mitt Romney, who declared this year that �freedom requires religion,� and Mike Huckabee, who called himself a �Christian leader� and advocated amending the Constitution to follow Biblical principles. Both men are being touted as running mates for McCain[...]
    At a meeting with prominent Christian leaders on Tuesday, Obama discussed his �personal journey of faith,� as one participant recounted. That, alone, goes against Kennedy�s dictum of keeping it private.
    .

Obama's problems with his former pastor are an interesting case, especially as juxtaposed against the hurdles Kennedy had to face: JFK, as with other Catholics in public life had to face questions about what happens when public policy finds itself in conflict with church doctrine. Would the Leader of the Free World be on the phone in the morning, taking guidance from the Holy See?

As a voter, do I need to care about the political opinions of my candidate's cpiritual leaders? I think American politics is somewhat unique among democracies that this is at all a matter of public scrutiny.
    �Say nothing of my religion,� said Thomas Jefferson. �It�s known to my God and myself alone.�.
Would you vote for a candidate whose religion was vastly different from your own? How about one who had no religion at all? And why do Americans seem to care more than other people?
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Would you vote for a candidate whose religion was vastly different from your own? How about one who had no religion at all? And why do Americans seem to care more than other people?


Those of us who are not religious have to choose between religious candidates all the time, so it's not a new issue with us. I'm much more comfortable when religion is not discussed in a campaign since I think it is inappropriate.

As for your last question, blame it on the British. The French and Spanish had the good taste to keep their religious dissenters at home--and killed them or drove them out. St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre, anyone? We, however, got stuck with the Puritans who were allowed to run rampant over New England. Virginia escaped that fate by recruiting settlers who just wanted money.

Once the New Englanders set down the cultural patterns we were set for the Great Awakening (Jonathan Edwards "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God") in the mid 1700's followed by the Second Great Awakening in the 1830's (lots of social reforms) and as many think, the current Third Great Awakening.
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The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strangely enough, The Founding Fathers (the ones who wrote the Constitution) were nearly all Deists. That's about the equjivalent of being a Unitarian, and I've heard Unitarianism described as not so much a faith as a weekly book discussion group.

The Puritans are one stream, sure, but you go back before Reagan, and you seldom saw such preoccupation with God in politics. That's where this current batch of pious pols stems from.
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SirFink



Joined: 05 Mar 2006

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bobster wrote:
The Puritans are one stream, sure, but you go back before Reagan, and you seldom saw such preoccupation with God in politics. That's where this current batch of pious pols stems from.


Ehhh... I wouldn't be so sure:

Quote:
One of Jefferson�s most vocal early critics was Timothy Dwight, president of Yale. On July 4, 1798, Dwight delivered a speech urging the voters to defeat the Jeffersonians��the illuminati, the philosophers, the atheists, and the deists.� Dwight predicted dire consequences if Jefferson and his party were to be elected to office: �We may see the Bible cast into a bonfire, the vessels of the sacramental supper borne by an ass in public procession, and our children, either wheedled or terrified, uniting in chanting mockeries against God.�
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cangel



Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Location: Jeonju, S. Korea

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Religion has no place in politics! Morality, yes. Religion, no.
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mithridates



Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, I'd vote for an atheist. Not a 'religion is a disease blar blar' soapbox-type atheist of course, but if someone I liked the policies of just happened to be an atheist I wouldn't not vote for them because of that. I'm not American though.
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Khenan



Joined: 25 Dec 2007

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:


Those of us who are not religious have to choose between religious candidates all the time, so it's not a new issue with us. I'm much more comfortable when religion is not discussed in a campaign since I think it is inappropriate.


Personally, I think most of them are lying about their faith - or at least a good amount of them. Honestly, given the prevalence of atheism among the intellectual and economic elite, the odds that every politician is actually religious are pretty low.

Strangely, this idea makes me almost as happy as would having the option to vote for an atheist candidate.
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djsmnc



Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Khenan wrote:
Ya-ta Boy wrote:


Those of us who are not religious have to choose between religious candidates all the time, so it's not a new issue with us. I'm much more comfortable when religion is not discussed in a campaign since I think it is inappropriate.


Personally, I think most of them are lying about their faith - or at least a good amount of them. Honestly, given the prevalence of atheism among the intellectual and economic elite, the odds that every politician is actually religious are pretty low.

Strangely, this idea makes me almost as happy as would having the option to vote for an atheist candidate.



I would vote for an atheist with a solid plan. Most candidates use a religious pretext to show that they are good Americans anyway. Many Americans want a married person who goes to church. Bottom line. I don't think religion should have any bearing on who runs a secular state. Too many see the state and religion being intertwined though, an idea that is a misguided abomination.

"Render unto Caeser what is Caeser's" you ridiculously uninformed electorate!
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