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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: Scientists Link Brain Symmetry, Sexual Orientation |
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http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/06/scientists-link.html
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A scientist with a brain scanner could figure out your sexual orientation based on the symmetry of your brain, new research from the Stockholm Brain Institute hints.
The findings support the notion that biological factors help determine sexual orientation and leave a specific neuroanatomical signature.
Using MRI scans of gay and straight men and women, the researchers found that people who liked women -- heterosexual men and homosexual women -- had larger right brain hemispheres, while people who liked men -- heterosexual women and homosexual men -- had symmetrical brains. As seen in the image, MRI and PET scans showed a similar pattern in two specific regions of the brain, the right and left amygdalas, which are thought to control fight-or-flight reactions.
"The results cannot be primarily ascribed to learned effects, and they suggest a linkage to neurobiological entities," the researchers, led by Ivanka Savic, write in a paper that will be published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences tomorrow.
Scientists have long tried to determine if sexual orientation is biologically determined, and if so, how. This research has been contentious in and outside the gay community. At stake is whether homosexuality is a choice or biologically inevitable. The groundbreaking work in the field of biological difference came from Simon LeVay, a self-identified gay neuroscientist, who found similarities in the brains of straight women and gay men in the early 90s. LeVay has his detractors, but recent studies seem to back his early research.
Pink News, billed as Europe's largest gay news service, cut straight to the chase about the implications of recent studies that have found measurable differences in the biology of men and women with different sexual orientations.
"These studies imply that the brains of the gay men have functional similarities to those of a straight woman, and that homosexuality is not of a moral choice, but one of biological substrate," wrote Jane Rochstad Lim.
While the research is suggestive, it does not address how such brain differences come to be, although the researchers noted that there could be genetic, environmental and/or sex hormonal factors. |
Nature, not nurture? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Step by incremental step, science is finding the biological bases for human behavior. It will eventually have serious implications for the concept of free will. |
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yawarakaijin
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Step by incremental step, science is finding the biological bases for human behavior. It will eventually have serious implications for the concept of free will. |
Quite ironic isn't it? One of mankind's greatest achievements (science replacing religion/ignorance) coming into conflict with one of our most treasured concepts. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Quite ironic isn't it? One of mankind's greatest achievements (science replacing religion/ignorance) coming into conflict with one of our most treasured concepts. |
It's happened at least one time before, with Copernicus. This kind of science could potentially have even more profound consequences than moving us out of the center of the universe.
It's exciting being alive at this time in history when science is opening the door to understanding our nature at a new level. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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| Quite ironic isn't it? One of mankind's greatest achievements (science replacing religion/ignorance) coming into conflict with one of our most treasured concepts. |
It's happened at least one time before, with Copernicus. This kind of science could potentially have even more profound consequences than moving us out of the center of the universe.
It's exciting being alive at this time in history when science is opening the door to understanding our nature at a new level. |
I'm sorry, did the discovery DNA resolve whether man had free will or was fully determined? If not, why should the study of the mind's phenomena resolve the question? Also, there's still the rather difficult question of whether sexuality is genetic or arises from conditions within the womb.
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| While the research is suggestive, it does not address how such brain differences come to be, although the researchers noted that there could be genetic, environmental and/or sex hormonal factors. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:57 am Post subject: |
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| I didn't respond to the specifics mentioned in the OP but to the more general area of study which I find exciting and illuminating. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:00 am Post subject: |
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Also, there's still the rather difficult question of whether sexuality is genetic or arises from conditions within the womb.
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Yes, you have a point there, but the answer would not contradict the main point of the OP. Whether sexuality is determined by genes or something in the womb, in neither case would that leave the person free to choose sexual orientation. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:45 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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| Quite ironic isn't it? One of mankind's greatest achievements (science replacing religion/ignorance) coming into conflict with one of our most treasured concepts. |
It's happened at least one time before, with Copernicus. This kind of science could potentially have even more profound consequences than moving us out of the center of the universe.
It's exciting being alive at this time in history when science is opening the door to understanding our nature at a new level. |
It is a very exciting time to be alive. Sometimes I forget that and then stuff like this reminds me. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| I'm sorry, did the discovery DNA resolve whether man had free will or was fully determined? If not, why should the study of the mind's phenomena resolve the question? |
I'm still trying to figure out if these two questions actually have a meaning. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:48 am Post subject: |
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Two questions:
Were the differences statistically significant?
These findings corroborate his earlier research, but has anyone else reproduced LeVay's findings? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:42 am Post subject: |
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Were the differences statistically significant?
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Who knows? That's why I didn't address the OP directly. It's a waste of time for a bunch of ESL teachers in Korea to jump on (or off) the bandwagon with every announcement of a finding. I limited my response to the general trend in science because I don't want to get into a debate on the merits of one brief news report based on one report that no one on this board has read and doesn't have the background entitling him to an opinion anyway.
We all, including you, know the direction the latest findings in the biological sciences is going. It's amazing what they are finding out. Who cares what one particular report says? It's the general thrust that is important. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:54 am Post subject: |
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The study is meaningless, and its attempts to link homosexuality to genetic heritage tenacious at best.
You could interview 100 gays and 75 of them have black hair. What conclusions do you draw?
By trying to remove individual responsibility for social behaviour, the scientists are shooting themselves in the foot. Will murderers one day go free because they have no control over their genetically programmed behaviour? Its stupid. They are agenda-driven by trends of modern fashionable thought. Papers that conclude blacks are less intelligent or other politically incorrect statements never make it into the media. Papers in support of popular worldview get hyped.
Truth is.. humans are equipped with an ability to make personal choices. Their biology is simply not that dominant a factor. If people were at the mercy of biological drives then nobody would ever become a monk.
Hogwash!!! |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| nautilus wrote: |
Truth is.. humans are equipped with an ability to make personal choices. Their biology is simply not that dominant a factor. If people were at the mercy of biological drives then nobody would ever become a monk.
Hogwash!!! |
Please tell us you are NOT saying homosexuality is choice. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
Please tell us you are NOT saying homosexuality is choice. |
Gays invariably claim to be bisexual.
At some point they made a choice to inhibit their heterosexuality..because of social factors.
There may be sme genetic factor. But it is insignificant and in no way could hold a human at its mercy.
Sexuality is dictated by fashions of the society. Thats why Koreans used to think plump women with faces covered in white make up were the epitome of sexy. Now, they don't.
Boys who grew up with altered power role models in the typically dysfunctional modern western family...make choices during adolescence... for societal reasons of their own. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:29 am Post subject: |
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Truth is.. humans are equipped with an ability to make personal choices. Their biology is simply not that dominant a factor. If people were at the mercy of biological drives then nobody would ever become a monk.
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Well, yes and no. We are capable of making choices. But to what degree? You seem to be saying we have 100% control. In light of discoveries like this one, it seems that the % is somewhat less. How much less is still open.
I'm surprised at your choice of monk as an example. Given the number of pederasts in the Catholic hierarchy, doesn't it make sense that some people choose to avoid temptation by becoming hermits? If they are gay rather than pederasts, then choosing to become monks, sailors, priests or Marines makes much more sense.
On the topic of hermits, except for the tiniest percentage of people, do we really have a choice? Have you ever considered it? We are social animals and therefore come equipped with a complement of behaviors that make it possible to live in groups. Are we 100% controlled by that genetic heritage? Well, there are people who are wangtta, so no, we are not 100% controlled.
The thrill of this new science is the discovery of just how much our genes set the parameters and what we have left to controll ourselves. Are we really as conscious as we think we are? |
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