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What is the point of marriage?
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Also, Jesus isn't fully omniscient. He doesn't know all things. Only the Father knows all things.


Fiveeagles I'm still wondering about this claim. Where do you find biblical support for this? I thought Jesus was part of the trinity and IS god. Can you be an omniscient god and not omniscient?

"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form"

To me it appears you're making things up on the spot to sidestep the plain facts I laid out. Knowing with 100% certainty you'll get a much much better eternity for a couple days of crap isn't a very noble story. Something that is predestined and unavoidable and knowing its unavoidable isn't a noble story. An atheist in a fox hole who dives on a grenade to save his buddies is a far more compelling story than one that amounts to deciding to walk through a bathroom door. Yawn.
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Bearach



Joined: 12 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mindmetoo wrote:
Where do you find biblical support for this? I thought Jesus was part of the trinity and IS god.


I don't believe there's anything in the bible about 'The Trinity.'

Back to marriage, it's a choice. If you make the choice because you want to, great. If you make it because your parents want you to, or because all your friends want you to, or your girlfriend wants you to, that's a recipe for disaster.
I'll never get married, but if I meet the right woman I want to spend the rest of my life with her. Having a long lasting, loving relationship is not dependent on a religious ceremony, or a legal contract.
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PRagic



Joined: 24 Feb 2006

PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have to ask, then you've never been in love. And by this I mean consumed by it. Looks wear off, and love changes over the years, but by-the-by, it does it better.

And once you've been married for a few years, you realize that you learn more about yourself than even before by doing life with someone. Not a roomie, not a buddy, but someone who's benefit you put before your own.

You find value in the human condition. You realize that there is someone in the world who will support you even though there is a downside from where they stand.

But the decision to 'get married' happens on it's own. I would caution against it for anyone who doesn't know deep down in their gut that it's the right thing to do.
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crusher_of_heads



Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Location: kimbop and kimchi for kimberly!!!!

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fiveeagles is referencing somehwere in the last chapters of Matthew, if memory serves correct. It has been a source of controversy in the Church -it certainly goes against the gospel of John.


Oral Roberts is garbage-no controversy there.
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fiveeagles



Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mindmetoo wrote:
Quote:
Also, Jesus isn't fully omniscient. He doesn't know all things. Only the Father knows all things.


Fiveeagles I'm still wondering about this claim. Where do you find biblical support for this? I thought Jesus was part of the trinity and IS god. Can you be an omniscient god and not omniscient?

"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form"

To me it appears you're making things up on the spot to sidestep the plain facts I laid out. Knowing with 100% certainty you'll get a much much better eternity for a couple days of crap isn't a very noble story. Something that is predestined and unavoidable and knowing its unavoidable isn't a noble story. An atheist in a fox hole who dives on a grenade to save his buddies is a far more compelling story than one that amounts to deciding to walk through a bathroom door. Yawn.


When Jesus became a man, He emptied Himself of His divine powers and lived His life like any other man, completely dependent upon His Father. That is what is known in Christianity as the doctrine of the Kenosis (Emptying), and is taken largely from this portion of Scripture:

"Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,

so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Philippians 2:5-11

So as a man, he was not all-knowing or all-powerful, but was limited in the same ways as we are, only because of His humble obedience in always doing the will of His Father, he was able to perform many supernatural feats.

"Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner.

"For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will marvel. "

Want to discuss this further, I forayed into the Omniscient God thread. Do you think we could have a civil discussion this time?
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bearach wrote:
mindmetoo wrote:
Where do you find biblical support for this? I thought Jesus was part of the trinity and IS god.


I don't believe there's anything in the bible about 'The Trinity.'


Check the quote I posted from the bible. Seems pretty clear. Jesus is god. He does not have dimished god powers. He's not a demi god. Fiveeagles cannot side step that fact.
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Unposter



Joined: 04 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do think having a legal contract helps maintain the relationship. There should be no fault divorce; people should not be imprisoned for the rest of their lives but having the contract does keep your eyes on the seriousness of the relationship.

Just my opinion. If you want to live with someone by all means do. But I don't see it as the same as marriage. Maybe, I should but I don't. It's just not the same level of committment.
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Nomadder



Joined: 16 May 2008

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PRagic wrote:
If you have to ask, then you've never been in love. And by this I mean consumed by it. Looks wear off, and love changes over the years, but by-the-by, it does it better.

And once you've been married for a few years, you realize that you learn more about yourself than even before by doing life with someone. Not a roomie, not a buddy, but someone who's benefit you put before your own.

You find value in the human condition. You realize that there is someone in the world who will support you even though there is a downside from where they stand.

But the decision to 'get married' happens on it's own. I would caution against it for anyone who doesn't know deep down in their gut that it's the right thing to do.


You don't seem to be making a distinction between a commitment, between two people, to a life-long relationship, and a legally binding document.
I have been in love before, and I've never felt the sudden need to have a peice of paper to reaffirm that. I've never thought, "Gee, if only the government recognized my love for this girl it would be a real love."
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friendoken



Joined: 19 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:04 am    Post subject: Re: What is the point of marriage? Reply with quote

[quote="Nomadder"]I don't get it. Anything you want from a relationship can be attained without legally binding your existence to that of another human being.

Sex? If this is the case then either your own desperation, or your religion is driving you to this. I won't comment in either case.

Love? If you want to be with someone then be with them. Why write up a contract about it to punish each other if you have a fallling out further down the road?

Financial reasons? Hm... This seems to be the most valid reason. (not saying its a good one...) Whether its your stereotypical gold digger, or someone who wants a better visa or citzenship in another country.

Other "security" concerns? If this is the case then maybe you should endeavor to figure out how to overcome your fears/security reasons on your own rather than cast your fate with someone else. (Whether its "I need someone to take care of me" or "I'm afraid to be alone".)

Biology? The need to get and rear offspring? Again, do we need a contract for this? Perhaps some see this as a means of insuring against single parenting? Maybe the marriage contract is seen as making it more difficult for one partner to leave the other to raise the child(ren) by ones self? That may seem a little calculating, but perhaps it's not as deliberate as that...

Just to make it clear I'm not anti-relationship. I'm not even anti-long-term relationship.
(Also, hopefully it is immediately obvious that this post isn't directed specifically at either sex.)

I just don't understand why people have allowed themselves to become so conditioned, as to automatically equate love with what is essentially a legal document. It seems somewhat perverse to me.

I'm interested in reading posts from all sorts. Whether you've sworn off marriage (something I haven't done... who knows...), are married, or are planning on getting married...

Why?

What does marriage mean to you?[/quote]

Many posters have diverged from the OP's question. Fiveeagles and cornfed have certainly expressed some interesting opinions Wink

Nonetheless, to answer the OP's actual question, to me marriage means comfort. I will get married someday, hopefully sooner rather than later, and I will take great comfort saying "this is my husband" and in hearing "this is my wife". Somehow, "this is my partner, mate, boyfriend/girlfriend" ad infinitum, just doesn't appeal to me, unless I am in high school or just beginning a relationship.

I may be going out on a limb here, but I feel marriage expresses a certain level of emotional maturity as well.
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Cheonmunka



Joined: 04 Jun 2004

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are going to do it marriage is something you should not do in your twenties and certainly not as compulsion, as in people telling you or nagging you. You have to wait until a voice inside yourself tells you.

I didn't know I was going to get married until a completely unsolicited small voice inside my head said, "You can marry now." Like a biological clock that struck on year 30.
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Atavistic



Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: How totally stupid that Korean doesn't show in this area.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheonmunka wrote:
If you are going to do it marriage is something you should not do in your twenties and certainly not as compulsion, as in people telling you or nagging you. You have to wait until a voice inside yourself tells you.


So are we supposed to listen to a voice or our birth certificate?
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mountainous



Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crescent wrote:
In Korea, we get more employment freedom.


That appears to be the single biggest motivating factor for Western men to marry Korean women.
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Cheonmunka



Joined: 04 Jun 2004

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So are we supposed to listen to a voice or our birth certificate?

GWB listens to voices. If it's good enough for 'im, 'tis good enough for me.
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