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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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 Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:29 pm Post subject: Michelle Obama: Love her? Hate her? This threads for you |
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(Edit: The thread title has been changed to more accurately reflect the current direction of the thread.)
From the NYT article on another thread...
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She also altered the hospital�s research agenda. When the human papillomavirus vaccine, which can prevent cervical cancer, became available, researchers proposed approaching local school principals about enlisting black teenage girls as research subjects.
Mrs. Obama stopped that. The prospect of white doctors performing a trial with black teenage girls summoned the specter of the Tuskegee syphilis experiment of the mid-20th century, when white doctors let hundreds of black men go untreated to study the disease.
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This detail does not seem to have been picked up by the mainstream press, but is being debated on a few blogs.
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Did Michelle Obama, channeling Rev. Wright's racist paranoia, condemn south Chicago girls and young women to unnecessary and preventable STDs and cervical cancer?
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Of course, the HPV issue makes for some strange politics. The Left usually loves to hate Big Pharma and its alliances with government. However, with the Religious Right protesting the distribution of the vaccine in schools(because it supposedly encourages teenagers to have sex), not too many progressives are gonna wanna jump in on that side of the debate.
As for the right-wingers, something like this would, under normal circumstances, be a great opportunity to portray Mrs. Obama as a paranoid black separatist, in the mode of Jeremiah Wright. But they're not gonna risk alienating their fundamentalist foot soldiers by appearing to support this particular vaccine.
http://tinyurl.com/64g8ax
Last edited by On the other hand on Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:21 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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That's a pretty inflamatory thread title when she was acting on:
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| summoned the specter of the Tuskegee syphilis experiment |
Why use high school girls in a STD drug study anyway? The proposed study becomes controversial on those grounds alone. What's wrong with adults? Then add the Tuskegee angle. It's a judgement call, but to use a decision like that to say the decision condemns black girls to cancer?
Pretty sleazy.
It looks to me like Hillary's vast right-wing conspiracy is an equal opportunity attack machine.  |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah. I don't see the big deal. She didn't stop doctors approaching highschools with an already tested and approved treatment. She stopped them approaching minors to be used as guinea pigs. Can't see the problem. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| ...channeling Rev. Wright's racist paranoia...altered the hospital's research agenda. |
Yes, On the Other Hand. Red flags here.
I also note this all derives from someone's blog. Blogs have no creditbility with me. No fact checking, no editors, etc. What do we know about the actual research proposed and especially what those who proposed it proposed and argued...? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| I believe that they were proposing tests on high schoolers because the vaccine is only effective for ages 9 to 26. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: Did Michelle Obama condemn black girls to cancerous deat |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
From the NYT article on another thread...
| Quote: |
She also altered the hospital�s research agenda. When the human papillomavirus vaccine, which can prevent cervical cancer, became available, researchers proposed approaching local school principals about enlisting black teenage girls as research subjects.
Mrs. Obama stopped that. The prospect of white doctors performing a trial with black teenage girls summoned the specter of the Tuskegee syphilis experiment of the mid-20th century, when white doctors let hundreds of black men go untreated to study the disease.
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This detail does not seem to have been picked up by the mainstream press, but is being debated on a few blogs.
| Quote: |
Did Michelle Obama, channeling Rev. Wright's racist paranoia, condemn south Chicago girls and young women to unnecessary and preventable STDs and cervical cancer?
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Of course, the HPV issue makes for some strange politics. The Left usually loves to hate Big Pharma and its alliances with government. However, with the Religious Right protesting the distribution of the vaccine in schools(because it supposedly encourages teenagers to have sex), not too many progressives are gonna wanna jump in on that side of the debate.
As for the right-wingers, something like this would, under normal circumstances, be a great opportunity to portray Mrs. Obama as a paranoid black separatist, in the mode of Jeremiah Wright. But they're not gonna risk alienating their fundamentalist foot soldiers by appearing to support this particular vaccine.
http://tinyurl.com/64g8ax |
Very good post. |
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Flash Ipanema
Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| I believe that they were proposing tests on high schoolers because the vaccine is only effective for ages 9 to 26. |
I wouldn't say it's only effective for those ages. The vaccine is prevention, so they want girls to receive the vaccine before they're sexually active and before they contract the disease. My doctor also told me that if someone already has one strain of HPV, the vaccine will still prevent a person from contracting the other strains.
As for the article, because it's a trial study I don't think it's bad at all that she doesn't want black girls singled out. Study all races, body types, ages, whatever, but don't single out one group unless there's good reason (like they're more susceptible to the disease and may require more study). And condemning them to cancer is a ridiculous jump to make, and was clearly written for the purpose of being inflammatory. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Flash Ipanema wrote: |
| And condemning them to cancer is a ridiculous jump to make, and was clearly written for the purpose of being inflammatory. |
I know little about this issue, but your objection sounds reasonable, especially given that our ultimate source of information here is a blog.
In any case, I do not like people such as Michelle Obama subjecting medical research to their ideological purity tests, either, Flash. Think of W. Bush's quashing "global warming" in the federal bureacracy, to cite another example. What are your thoughts on this? |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:22 am Post subject: Re: Did Michelle Obama condemn black girls to cancerous deat |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
Very good post. |
Thanks Joo!
For the record, I have no strong opinions on this, and am grateful for the information from more informed posters. What I find the most interesting, as I've indicated, is the response, or lack thereof, from the various players in the American political arena.
Big Bird wrote:
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| She didn't stop doctors approaching highschools with an already tested and approved treatment. She stopped them approaching minors to be used as guinea pigs. |
Well, if that's true, and if this company really WAS trying to use minors as guinea pigs, that sounds pretty unethical. And I have to ask why left-wing activists, the kind of people who raise holy hell against "frankenfood" and whatnot, aren't making a bigger issue of this.
Ipanema wrote:
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| I don't think it's bad at all that she doesn't want black girls singled out |
Yes, but is it really the case that black girls were being singled out? The article doesn't say that only black girls were being tested, just that...
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researchers proposed approaching local school principals about enlisting black teenage girls as research subjects.
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It's not clear from this if they were ONLY testing it on black girls, or if it was just that they had already tested it on a lot of white girls, and wanted to even out the sample, or any other number of possibilities.
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| And condemning them to cancer is a ridiculous jump to make, and was clearly written for the purpose of being inflammatory. |
Well, I guess I could have called it Possible Controversy From Mrs. Obama's Career In Hospital Administration, but I doubt that anyone would have bothered to read that. |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:02 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
Why use high school girls in a STD drug study anyway? The proposed study becomes controversial on those grounds alone. What's wrong with adults? Then add the Tuskegee angle. It's a judgement call, but to use a decision like that to say the decision condemns black girls to cancer?
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It's a preventative measure, not a treatment, and because HPV is so common, it's ideally administered before the girl ever has sex. It's not even approved for women over 26 in Canada in fact. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:41 am Post subject: Re: Did Michelle Obama condemn black girls to cancerous deat |
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[quote="On the other hand"]
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
Very good post. |
Thanks Joo!
For the record, I have no strong opinions on this, and am grateful for the information from more informed posters. What I find the most interesting, as I've indicated, is the response, or lack thereof, from the various players in the American political arena.
I think your analysis is dead on here. Especially is that this ought to be one thing that the Republicans could use in several but cause they are so into promoting abstinence programs that they can't and won't use this. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| I believe that they were proposing tests on high schoolers because the vaccine is only effective for ages 9 to 26. |
It is more useful than that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardasil
Disclaimer I own stock in Merck |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| this ought to be one thing that the Republicans could use in several but cause they are so into promoting abstinence programs that they can't and won't use this |
Oh yeah. You can bet that if this was any other drug, FOX News would be all over the story by now.
TEENS' LIVES SACRIFICED AT THE ALTAR OF AFROCENTRIC RACISM BY OBAMA'S BABY MAMMA!! |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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From the looks of it, there are going to be more anti-Michelle issues. Maybe this thread should become the official Discuss Michelle thread.
The Absurd Caricature of Michelle Obama
It looks as if the concerns that some people have about Mrs. Obama tell us less about her and more about them. Once again, we seem to have an abundance of paranoid white folks who see a black separatist lurking around every corner.
Even in elite corners. How did a corporate lawyer with degrees from Princeton and Harvard and a record of bringing together whites and blacks in her position as a hospital administrator get transformed, in the minds of some, into a black militant with a chip on her shoulder and a score to settle with white America?
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/06/the_absurd_caricature_of_miche.html |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
From the looks of it, there are going to be more anti-Michelle issues. Maybe this thread should become the official Discuss Michelle thread.
The Absurd Caricature of Michelle Obama
It looks as if the concerns that some people have about Mrs. Obama tell us less about her and more about them. Once again, we seem to have an abundance of paranoid white folks who see a black separatist lurking around every corner.
Even in elite corners. How did a corporate lawyer with degrees from Princeton and Harvard and a record of bringing together whites and blacks in her position as a hospital administrator get transformed, in the minds of some, into a black militant with a chip on her shoulder and a score to settle with white America?
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/06/the_absurd_caricature_of_miche.html |
Ruben Naverette is a bit of a one trick pony on identity politics issues. There's a racist around every corner in his mind. I'm white and I grew up on the South Side of Chicago, and I've seen a good amount of hostility towards me and my family simply because I'm white, especially in the public schools and local school councils. I would not be surprised to see a woman with her background be a radical black separatist. It's usually the middle to upper class black people that are the most radical, at least in Chicago. The hardcore church goers are probably the worst in this respect.
That being said, I'm not sure that there's enough evidence to paint her, specifically, with that brush. |
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