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spliff

Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand

Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:41 pm Post subject:

ytuque...Is that E. Hemingway?

Cotal Tunt

Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Location: A drill and your skull.

Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:05 pm Post subject:

Quote:

where,I,a 25 year old college graduate, "hired clown"

And?

ESL Milk "Everyday

Joined: 12 Sep 2007

Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject:

ytuque wrote:

By serious, I meant an end to singing children's songs and playing games like bingo, an end to clowning.

We stop singing once they hit middle school. Stop playing games by third year, I think... though I still put some games in there from time to time. But come on, EVERYONE likes games. That's why the Parker Brothers made so much money. Even adults don't mind.

And once again, there is a big difference between playing games/singing and being a clown. It's not like we're spraying ourselves in the face with spritzer everyday and falling over all the time. Even the Korean teachers aren't always one hundred percent serious-- in my class one of them actually played pin the tail on the donkey... the kids loved it, and she still got respect.

If you don't have a certain degree of humility then you're not going to be a very good teacher.

Scotticus

Joined: 18 Mar 2007

Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:19 pm Post subject:

NilesQ wrote:

ps.as you can tell from this post, I am a university graduate who cant spell or form very good sentences, but I can mention theories that I think make me sound like I know what I am talking about. a true college grad;i cant do anything but i can talk about doing a lot!

I love people who assume because THEY went to a shitty shool and learned nothing, that ALL people who go to college come out learning nothing.

ytuque

Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Location: I drink therefore I am!

Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:29 pm Post subject:

spliff wrote:

ytuque...Is that E. Hemingway?

I have no idea. I took it off a friend's facebook page, and he can't remember where it came from. His best guess is that it's a bum in Belgrade Serbia.

Can't be Hemingway since there is a plastic grocery bag to the man's left. In Hemingway's time, it would have been the old brown paper bag.

ytuque

Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Location: I drink therefore I am!

Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:36 pm Post subject:

ESL Milk "Everyday wrote:

If you don't have a certain degree of humility then you're not going to be a very good teacher.

Are you humble?

NilesQ

Joined: 27 Nov 2006

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:06 am Post subject:

Scotticus wrote:

NilesQ wrote:

I love people who assume because THEY went to a shitty shool and learned nothing, that ALL people who go to college come out learning nothing.

Congratulations dipshit!! I never said that college grads don't learn anything, I said they aren't trained to do anything in particular. You must be a college graduate! Quick to start a tangental argument, convinced that you are right.

I would also argue that the quality of undergraduate programs is pretty subjective, and due to government funding(where I'm from), pretty consistant. The notion of a good school and a "shitty" school, as you so eloquantly and succinctly put it, is not very pronounced at the undergraduate level. Especially in dealing with the liberal arts where the majority, I would assume, of ESL teachers graduate from. It is more of a branding strategy that idiots like you buy into.

Gwangjuboy

Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:59 am Post subject:

NilesQ wrote:

It is more of a branding strategy that idiots like you buy into.

You were speaking nonsense and you got called on it; why give the man abuse?

Scotticus

Joined: 18 Mar 2007

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:06 am Post subject:

NilesQ wrote:

You can bitch and moan all you want, but it doesn't change my argument at all. I'm sorry you went to a school that didn't teach you anything "useful" (or managed to not learn anything useful in four or more years), but that's hardly a condemnation on the entire system.

I agree completely that quality of education is subjective. Certain people go in with a chip on their shoulder and come out an angry douchebag with nothing to show for their time. Other people go in, grow as people and leave better than they were when they entered.

I'd suggest seeing someone about those anger issues, by the way. Allowing thoughts of your wasted youth to fester like this is only going to make you more bitter as you grow older.

nautilus

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:58 am Post subject:

ytuque wrote:

By serious, I meant an end to singing children's songs

that would be insane.
All children learn by singing. Its probably one of the most natural forms of learning. I believe eduction should mirror to some degree the way children have aqcuired knowledge for millenia- long before schools were invented- and that is the family unit and extended family unit.

Quote:

and playing games like bingo,

-you must not be doing it right.
Bingo can be a useful teaching tool. I'm serious. You can adapt it to use not only numbers but all kinds of vocabulary- teach kids to listen for words in a story, etc. Plus its always good to have some fun activity as a reward for study, at the end of the lesson. You see u have to keep up enthusiasm.
Academically, I never learned anything I didn't enjoy learning.

Quote:

an end to clowning.

Come on. Humour is possibly one of the greatest tools you have at your disposal. It immediately gets the classes attention. You control the class to some degree, with humour. You can even use humour to humiliate the worst students.

Quote:

Do you really believe a straight lecture without a song and dance routine is only for Phd students?

its about balance. A bit of this, bit of that.
Straight lectures are OK if you are fully able to communicate in a way, or language, the kids understand. Or if they are of the age to have a long attention span (ie adults).

korean teachers often rely heavily on mind-numbing lectures because they have no other skills. I don't respect that.

But if your main point is that foreigners should be accorded more respect as teachers, then yes i agree. Some of us are miles ahead of the korean teachers, in teaching ability.

ytuque

Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Location: I drink therefore I am!

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:23 am Post subject:

nautilus wrote:

ytuque wrote:

By serious, I meant an end to singing children's songs

Quote:

and playing games like bingo,

Quote:

an end to clowning.

Quote:

Do you really believe a straight lecture without a song and dance routine is only for Phd students?

I studied some foreign languages in middle school, high school, and at the university. At some point (middle school), the edutainment stopped and lectures began. My original point was to ask when does this happen for Korean EFL students. This was my original question. Perhaps, the fun and games never end, and English is never taught as a serious subject.

ESL Milk "Everyday

Joined: 12 Sep 2007

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:15 am Post subject:

ytuque wrote:

ESL Milk "Everyday wrote:

If you don't have a certain degree of humility then you're not going to be a very good teacher.

Are you humble?

Yes.

yingwenlaoshi

Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: ... location, location!

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:41 am Post subject:

Dee Fague.

NilesQ

Joined: 27 Nov 2006

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:48 pm Post subject:

Gwangjuboy wrote:

NilesQ wrote:

It is more of a branding strategy that idiots like you buy into.

You were speaking nonsense and you got called on it; why give the man abuse?

I would like to know why you think that my opinion that university graduates are not trained to do anything in particular is "nonsense". I stand by that assertion wholeheartedly. I did not say that university was a waste of time. I believe that far too many people now go to university that perhaps shouldn't and this has dumbed down the entire system. Instead of being institutions of higher learning and free thought, universities are turning into business units and profit centers. Pushing people through and allowing entrance to those that wouldn't have been admitted in the past. People now look at a university education as a right rather than a privelage bestowed on those who show academic talent. And what the hell, governments like it because it keeps students off the unemployment rolls for another 4 years. At the end of those years, skill wise, most college grads are no more employable than when they finished high school.

I had an economics professor who said that for most graduates the content they study in college will have no relation to what they are employed to do when they graduate. What having a university degree shows to an employer is your ability to conform to and work within a system. You have been given assignments and completed them as asked and within a given timeframe. You have attended meetings of classes and worked with others. You have been tested on material you were asked to learn. A degree proves that you are teachable. In reality, what does having a BA in history have to do with being an ESL teacher or a salesman. University is meant to expand your ability to think critically, which can be a big bonus in many areas of work, but not give you the specific skill set needed to do a particular job.

So, a person who believes that a diploma in some way makes them special and more prepared than others to do certain types of work, and then takes a job teaching ESL to toddlers, is just asking to feel underutilized and/or above the task they have been given to do.

Yu_Bum_suk

Joined: 25 Dec 2004

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:25 pm Post subject:

nautilus wrote:

ytuque wrote:

By serious, I meant an end to singing children's songs

Quote:

and playing games like bingo,

Quote:

an end to clowning.

Quote:

Do you really believe a straight lecture without a song and dance routine is only for Phd students?

Great post. Being professional and respected does not equate to doing certain activities and not doing others. When it comes to learning English, songs and games that get students using the language are more effective than lectures that don't. And no, that's not to say you have to act like a clown.

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