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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:54 am Post subject: 'Down with the J,' and out of their senses |
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OTTAWA -- In the borderless new world of the jihadi militant and aspiring terrorist and those who love them - call it jihadiland, and know that it has no physical home or geographic base but lives rather in the hearts of the believers - everything is upside down.
And for all the juicy tidbits to emerge from the first day of Mohammad Momin Khawaja's trial, none could match this picture painted of the global nature of the modern jihad.
Police and security officials the planet over have been talking about this for years - the way the Internet has enabled and normalized the jihadi leanings of Western Muslim youth, much as it has done for pedophiles, giving both a sense of community and reinforced purpose - but it is most alarming at close quarters.
Example: If white is not black in this topsy-turvy world, brown is - those lads of mostly Pakistani descent racking up the air miles, flitting easily from Ottawa and New York to London and Lahore and training camp in northern Pakistan and Afghanistan, call themselves "niggahs" or "brothers."
Example: It is left to the moms, as with moms everywhere, to raise the most delicate issues about the suitability of the prospective bride.
But in jihadiland, apparently, they don't ask about her parents or her education or even her virginity. They ask, as did the mom of Canada's own Momin Khawaja, allegedly, about the fianc�e's jihad sympathies.
She wants to make sure, Mr. Khawaja told his then-girl in an Oct. 4, 2003, e-mail, "that you were down with the J [jihad] and my involvement in it."
Their collective "Westernness," for lack of a better term, is not in doubt, and ought to offer no comfort at all. Mr. Khawaja, for instance, worked as a contract employee for the Canadian Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, or DFAIT. After his arrest and the execution of search warrants upon his work station at DFAIT's Albert Street offices in Ottawa, and his parents' Ottawa home, police discovered he had allegedly used his office computer to e-mail other members of the terrorist cell. Wiretaps and e-mails which formed much of the evidence in the British case, and will here as well, showed that he pondered using the DFAIT internal courier system to ship a prototype of his "Hi-Fi Digimonster," the remote-control detonator he built, to group members in London; ultimately, he thought the better of it.
But once, when going through what he called the usual bother at British customs (one hopes he wasn't a victim of racial profiling), Mr. Khawaja produced his DFAIT employee card as evidence of his bona fides.
He allegedly convinced an Ottawa Muslim woman to do some terrorist banking for him (she will testify here later) and he told the ex-fianc�e (she will testify via video link) once that "Not a day goes by that I don't wish to be on the front lines with the mujahadeen" and that "civilian deaths are inevitable and permissible" in the Koran. He allegedly told the fianc�e's online replacement that Osama bin Laden was his "most beloved person" and that he longed "to kiss his beloved hand." When he heard, once, that Pakistani troops had Al-Qaeda members cornered, he allegedly was on the phone to the cell leader, offering to ride to the rescue.
And of all the people in all the places that Mr. Khawaja went, in person or online, in Ottawa or London or Pakistan or cyberspace, the fiercest resistance he seems to have encountered consisted of gentle, qualified cautions - to tone down the rhetoric or take more precautions.
Not a soul appears to have said, "Brother, you know this stuff ain't sanctioned by the old Koran." |
http://www.theglobeandmail.com
This guy worked for Foreign Affairs and used company computers to send terrorist related emails. Disgusting.
And the reason they didn't say "brother, you know this stuff ain't sanctioned by the old koran" is because it is sanctioned in the old koran. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:59 am Post subject: |
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Why do so many young Muslims, brought up in the West so badly 'misunderstand' their religion, which we are constantly told, has nothing to do with violence?
Don't they know they're supposed to take all that 'slay the infidels' talk with a pinch of salt? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
Why do so many young Muslims, brought up in the West so badly 'misunderstand' their religion, which we are constantly told, has nothing to do with violence?
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In fairness, I haven't met a single person in a long while who seriously believes the religion of peace nonsense. Western people have become slightly educated about the contents of the koran.
The story now seems to be that muslims don't actually believe their own religion. I expect that will have about as long a shelf-life as the ROP nonsense. Eventually, as the lies become more obvious, and as we see already happening, nations like Canada will simply make it against the law to express an opinion about islam that isn't a happy platitude. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:29 am Post subject: |
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I agree, I think increasingly the public are beginning to realise what a real menace Islam is. I was referring to certain members of the political class and the media who trot out such ridiculous platitudes.
It was just recently that some idiotic minister in the UK wanted to redefine Islamic terrorism, as 'anti-Islamic' terrorism, because obviously such actions went against the fine and noble teachings of Islam as outlined by Mohammed. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:35 am Post subject: |
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bigverne wrote:
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It was just recently that some idiotic minister in the UK wanted to redefine Islamic terrorism, as 'anti-Islamic' terrorism, because obviously such actions went against the fine and noble teachings of Islam as outlined by Mohammed. |
Oh man. Talk about Orwellian nonsense. But nothing surprises me about the UK anymore. There is literally no end to the nonsense that country produces.
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Muslim is spared a speeding ban so he can drive between his two wives
Mohammed Anwar said a ban would make it difficult to commute between his two wives and fulfil his matrimonial duties.
His lawyer told a Scottish court the Muslim restaurant owner has one wife in Motherwell and another in Glasgow - he is allowed up to four under his religion - and sleeps with them on alternate nights.
He also needed his driving licence to run his restaurant in Falkirk, Stirlingshire.
Airdrie Sheriff Court had heard that Anwar was caught driving at 64mph in a 30mph zone in Glasgow, fast enough to qualify for instant disqualification.
Anwar admitted the offence, but Sheriff John C. Morris accepted his plea not to be banned and allowed him to keep his licence.
Instead, he was fined �200 and given six penalty points.
Lorna Jackson, from the road safety charity Brake, called the decision "astonishing".
She said: "Regardless of the number of wives or businesses this man drives to, he broke a law which is there to protect everyone.
"Travelling just a few miles over the limit in a 30mph zone can be the difference between life and death if you hit someone, let alone driving at more than twice the speed limit.
"Drivers know the law, and they know the punishment they could face when they break it.
"For the courts to allow someone to keep their licence when they have so blatantly flouted the law and put peoples' lives at risk, on the basis of an excuse such as this, is astonishing."
Anwar, wearing a suit and an open-neck shirt, had made no comment during his five-minute court appearance, apart from confirming his identity.
But last night, speaking from his restaurant Sanam, he said: "It is true I have two wives.
"Muslim men are allowed up to four. But I am not a religious leader and it is not my place to comment.
"As a matter of respect to my wives I would not comment on my home life.
"The sheriff did not ban me because I need my licence to run my business, although my wives were also part of the decision."
The court had heard that Anwar was on his way home from Falkirk to his Glasgow wife on August 21, 2007, when he was caught by city police using a hand-held speed camera.
His lawyer, Paul Nicolson, said: "He realises his licence is at risk, but this is an unusual case and is very anxious to keep his driving licence.
"He has one wife in Motherwell and another in Glasgow and sleeps with one one night and stays with the other the next on an alternate basis.
"Without his driving licence he would be unable to do this on a regular basis. |
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk
Polygamy is illegal and yet this dude successfully used it as a justification to keep his license. Unreal. There will be no end to this.
Last edited by mises on Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:39 am; edited 3 times in total |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:09 am Post subject: |
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| Cue Big Bird/Desultude..... |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:17 am Post subject: |
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Meh. I'll preempt them. No. Not ALL muslims are radicals. But as we see in the OP, the radicals rest snugly upon a bed of tolerance for their cause in otherwise "moderate" muslim communities.
The idea of competing civilizations is currently foreign to most Western people and the mere mention of it seems impolite at best. But competing and different we are. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| It was just recently that some idiotic minister in the UK wanted to redefine Islamic terrorism, as 'anti-Islamic' terrorism, because obviously such actions went against the fine and noble teachings of Islam as outlined by Mohammed. |
I googled this to see if it was true. Naive me. Of course it is. The only difference isn't that some minister "wanted" to do it, as Verne suggested, but that they were successful. *beep* me this is the most retarded thing I've ever read.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk
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Government renames Islamic terrorism as 'anti-Islamic activity' to woo Muslims
Ministers have adopted a new language for declarations on Islamic terrorism.
In future, fanatics will be referred to as pursuing "anti-Islamic activity".
Home Secretary Jacqui Smith said that extremists were behaving contrary to their faith, rather than acting in the name of Islam.
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Yes, white christian. You know islam better than muslims.
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Her words were chosen to reflect new Government strategy on labelling the terrorists and their recruiting agents.
The shift follows a decision taken last year to stop using the phrase "war on terror", first adopted by U.S. President Bush. |
Hey, good for the UK. Taking linguistic cues from George W. Bush.
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The strategy emerging across Government is to portray terrorists as nothing more than cold-blooded murderers who are not fighting for any religious cause. |
So, official policy is to lie.
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In her speech, Miss Smith said extremists who use the internet to radicalise young children would be pursued in the same way as paedophiles. |
So, reading the koran will be similarly judged as looking at kiddie porn? Hey......
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"It must also be about stopping people becoming or supporting terrorists. We can't, after all, simply arrest our way out of this problem."
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But you can deport/restrict immigration your way out of this problem. |
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doc_ido
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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How about next time you quote news sources more credible than the Daily Mail (I'm not surprised you think it's retarded)? Your arguments would carry a lot more weight if we didn't have to constantly read the gutter press.
Re: the speeding non-conviction, that kind of acquittal isn't so unusual in the UK - or indeed anywhere. If you can make a case that your livelihood relies on your being able to drive then you're unlikely to have it taken off you on a speeding charge (a good example of this is a policeman who, while off duty, was clocked at 159 mph "familiarising himself with his vehicle" and was subsequently acquitted, had a retrial and was let off having "suffered enough"). I doubt this would have made the news if it hadn't been a Muslim guy - gotta keep reminding people how dangerous they are, ya know. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:37 am Post subject: |
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| How about next time you quote news sources more credible than the Daily Mail (I'm not surprised you think it's retarded)? Your arguments would carry a lot more weight if we didn't have to constantly read the gutter press. |
Of course, you have no evidence that the story in the Daily Mail was untrue, so you rubbished it. Well, from the horse's mouth (the Home Office website) here are the idiotic words of the Home Secretary herself.
http://press.homeoffice.gov.uk/Speeches/sp-hs-terrorism-keynote-jan-08
This is vital when we come to consider how best to respond to the threat we face.
Terrorism is a crime that does not discriminate. That �small minority� threatens the safety and security of all communities in Britain, irrespective of politics, faith, or ethnic background.
And we are not unique in this � the same is true elsewhere. Indeed, despite its rhetoric to the contrary, al Qaeda itself pursues a global strategy of killing Muslims.
As so many Muslims in the UK and across the world have pointed out, there is nothing Islamic about the wish to terrorise, nothing Islamic about plotting murder, pain and grief. Indeed, if anything, these actions are �anti-Islamic�.
Ignoring that the ideology of the Jihadis is rooted in the texts of the Koran, the actions of Mohammed and hundreds of years of Islamic practice and jurisprudence.
She goes on to say:-
With the Ministry of Justice and the Prisons Service we have set up an important programme to understand and address radicalisation in our prisons system.
I know that this is a problem in many countries, and we have learned much from experiences elsewhere. I want particularly to highlight the very valuable contribution made to this programme here by the Prisons Chaplaincy, imams and others, who have vital role to play in challenging anti-Islamic views and behaviours. In tandem, there have also been initiatives to raise awareness and understanding among Prisons Service staff.
These are not anti-Islamic views, they are anti-Infidel and anti-Western views inspired by Islamic theology. Until people at the highest levels of power admit this we have little to no chance of properly addressing the problem of Islamic extremism.
Welcome to 1984. |
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doc_ido
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:33 am Post subject: |
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| I don't recall claiming either story was untrue. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| How about next time you quote news sources more credible than the Daily Mail (I'm not surprised you think it's retarded)? Your arguments would carry a lot more weight if we didn't have to constantly read the gutter press. |
You don't deny the factual accuracy but piss and moan about the source? Weak.
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| I doubt this would have made the news if it hadn't been a Muslim guy - gotta keep reminding people how dangerous they are, ya know. |
You didn't read it. He used his illegal family arrangement as justification for his illegal action and this argument was accepted by a judge. You are right, we would not have read about this if the dude wasn't muslim because this would have only been a successful defense for a muslim. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| In her speech, Miss Smith said extremists who use the internet to radicalise young children would be pursued in the same way as paedophiles. |
So, reading the koran will be similarly judged as looking at kiddie porn? Hey......[/quote]
They are only taking their cues from America, where the USA PATRIOT Act applies to both terrorism and child pornography. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
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In her speech, Miss Smith said extremists who use the internet to radicalise young children would be pursued in the same way as paedophiles. |
So, reading the koran will be similarly judged as looking at kiddie porn? Hey...... |
They are only taking their cues from America, where the USA PATRIOT Act applies to both terrorism and child pornography. |
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doc_ido
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| You don't deny the factual accuracy but piss and moan about the source? Weak. |
What's wrong with criticising the Daily Mail? It's never even pretended to be an objective news source - if someone posted an article from the Morning Star you'd be the fist to complain.
If you were interested in reporting a factual story and starting a discussion, why didn't you just post the primary source? Posting articles from heavily biased sources just gives the impression that you're more interested in trumpeting your opinions than talking about the issues surrounding them.
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| You didn't read it. He used his illegal family arrangement as justification for his illegal action and this argument was accepted by a judge. You are right, we would not have read about this if the dude wasn't muslim because this would have only been a successful defense for a muslim. |
My reading of the article gave me the impression that his business was the main factor in the judge's decision (as generally is in these cases). As you pointed out, polygamy is illegal in the UK and, as his wives aren't recognised under UK law I doubt the judge would have considered them a major factor. And it's not like he got off completely scot-free - poorer excuses have been used to wriggle out of much more serious crimes (committed by non-Muslims, no less - examples on request). |
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