Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Rumple]

So I read a side-argument in another thread I can't find now, about whether ESL teachers at universities were "professors" or not. There seemed to be a lot of derision coming down on someone who described him or herself as a professor, even though that person didn't have a Ph.D.

So while I was up walking around the campus of the university that is trying to sign me, I asked the department chair "In Korean, what do you call a university instructor who only has a seoksa (Master's)?"

He said "Gyosunim [professor], just like the ones with PhDs" I told him that where I'm from, someone who was not appointed to a professorship is usually called a lecturer, or just an instructor. He said there was no such distinction here. He said 80% of the gyosu at that university had PhDs, and the rest had masters degrees.

So, is it technically correct to say "I'm a professor," if I teach at a Korean university? Yes. However, are Westerners going to be misled? Also yes.

So for me, when asked, I'm probably going to say "I'm a lecturer," if answering foreigners in English, and "Jae neun gyosuyo" if answering Koreans in Korean.

[Bibbitybop]

It depends who you are talking to. In Korea, they call people with MA's "professors." Run with it. "Call me a lecturer" is going to be a confusing as tipping the pizza delivery guy. When talking to Westerners, say whatever is appropriate. I see your point, people calling prospective employers in the West or misleading newbie Westerners here.

[Rumple]

[ajgeddes]

At our university, even in Korean we aren't called Gyosu.

Anyways, when I was in university, everybody that taught there was a professor except for TA's, whither they had an MA or Ph.D. Kind of why I don't understand why everyone on here gets so upset if somebody calls themself a professor.

[Pyongshin Sangja]

You are a Kangsa, not a kyosu. But your students will still call you kyosu.

[Hyeon Een]

I have an MA but not a Phd. I mostly teach EFL.

In a bar or wherever, I tell the random adjossi asking me that I am a "Yeongeo Gangsa" ie English instructor. I sometimes drop "Daehagyo" (=University) in front if I suspect they're going to use some kind of status thing to disrespect me.. but that is rare, so I rarely mention that it's a University that I'm an instructor at.

If I am speaking in English I usually say "I'm a lecturer at a University" or "I work at a University" or "I teach English as a foreign language at a University". I never say that I'm a "professor" in English.

If my students speak to me in Korean, they do indeed call me 'gyo-su-nim'. This is also what they call Korean 'workers at the uni' with the same qualifications. I neither discourage nor discourage it. It's what is appropriate for them to call me in Korean. Most of the time they speak to me in English though and call me by my name rather than a title.

I would hate to be disrespected and at the same time I would feel incredibly awkward if I was given a title above my station. Any foreigner with a BA or MA who demands their students call them 'Professor' in English is a bit of a tool in my opinion. The Korean equivalent is totally acceptable because that is the way it is used in the Korean language.

[Hyeon Een]

[DHC]

At my university foreign teachers are called professors with an MA. I have a doctor degree and am called professor. The name plate on my office door reads professor and my name cards,furnished by the university , read professor. At graduation and other ceremonies , I march with the Korean professors in full academic regalia. Although I teach some English courses , I am a member of another department and teach credit courses in that major.

[jboney]

[PRagic]

OP, you asked him what he 'CALLED' people with an MA who were teaching at the university. Naturally, they can be called 'professor'. However, those same people, when asked what they do, will NOT say they are 'kyosu'; they will reply with their appropriate title (e.g. instructor).

When I was teaching in the U.S. when I was doing my doctorate, it just didn't feel right for the students to call me 'professor'. I had an MBA and was ABD, but I wasn't done yet. Also, if an actual professor overheard a student calling a non-Ph.D. 'professor', they would either openly laugh, or correct the student on the spot. Territorial.

The long and short of it is that you can call yourself whatever you want, but in the end, you'll look kind of funny if you don't have your Ph.D., but still call yourself a professor.

Personally, I just get a chuckle out of it. I was concerned about NOT being called a professor before I finished my Ph.D. Now, however, I could give a crap less what they call me!

[ajstew]

What about if you have a Ph.D in a subject other than you teach in your Korean university? Is that chuckle worthy? If you have a Ph.D in English Lit and you teach English conversation, should you call yourself only a professor when teaching an English Lit course, but ask to be called lecturer when teaching something else? Or do you think you should be called professor simply because you've completed a Ph.D? It seems like someone who thinks like that is the one who I'd chuckle about.

[jackson7]

Check out the foreign faculty recruiting page from SNU (sorry, the link was posted elsewhere) for a good example of correct "official" terminology in Korean unis. Similar to Western ladder systems although it seems they can bump up to "professor" a lot quicker. That said, I too am a kyosu to the Koreans, and a lecturer to the Westerners.

[Hootsmon]

This comes up from time to time...I don't see what the big deal is. As the OP said, it's all a question of where you are.

A "professor" in Korea isn't a "professor" in the US, ok.

However, often, a "professor" in the US isn't a "professor" in the UK. In the UK, even if you have a PhD, been published a million times and are working at one of the top universities, it doesn't make you a professor. "Professor" is a legal titled granted to a few top academics, much like "Doctor" is granted to those with a PhD. At my university, in the whole English department, there was only one real "Professor". The rest we just called "Dr." whoever.

So, that begs the question, if a US professor meets a UK Professor, should he just describe himself as a lecturer? Or professor?

[PRagic]

Interesting point, ajstew. The only answer I could suggest would be that what you teach isn't as important as your degree level. I know several people who teach out of their dicipline (e.g. sociology Ph.D.s who teach history, law Ph.D.s who teach economics, and a variety of people who teach statistics, but who don't have stats Ph.D.s). They work full-time at a university and are attached to an academic department, so they can be called 'professors' in the U.S.

Like I said, most Ph.D.s that I know don't care what they're called. My point was only that it is laughable to most in academic departments in N. America if someone without a Ph.D. calls themselves a professor, or allows themselves to be addressed this way.

As for the U.K. system, I don't know how that would work. U.K. universities are extremely well represented in my dicipline, and at international conferences, all are refered to as 'professor', regardless of their employment status. This might just be to limit confusion with academics from other countries.

Many Korean universities hire new Ph.D.s under 'full-time instructor' status, and then promote to assistant prof. in two years. This is strange to those coming from N. America. If you're at a conference and hand someone your card, and it reads, 'Full-time Instructor', many will ask if you have finished your Ph.D.

[bassexpander]

http://bp3.blogger.com/_fP1mI58YM78/Rl8ypKNaDBI/AAAAAAAABCE/BKJCld_E3Q8/s1600-h/russelljohnson.jpg

I think it's funny watching people get all upset about this.