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Bush, One of America's Greatest Presidents?
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Mr. BlackCat

Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:18 am Post subject:

Bush is a great President because there hasn't been attacks in the US for 7 years. = Homer: The Bear Patrol is working. Lisa: How so? Homer: I don't see any bears around here, do you? Lisa: Well, just becuase there's no bears doesn't mean the bear patrol is the reason. Homer: How so? Lisa: See this rock? It's a magical rock. It keeps bears away. Homer: REALLY?! Lisa: Well no, not really. But you don't see any bears around here, do you? Homer: Lisa, I'd like to buy your magical anti-bear rock. Have fun with your pet rocks, kids. Hope they help you sleep at night.

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:21 am Post subject:

yawarakaijin wrote:

Kuros wrote:

yawarakaijin wrote:

TexasPete wrote:

I'd hardly call it a tiny white lie when it's cost us $548,500,000,000.00 and climbing.

And an uncounted number of lives.

I will tell you one thing though. This whole idea that you guys are fighting terrorism is the biggest steaming pile of shit ever put out there. You are not losing the majority of your soldiers to terrorists. You are losing your soldiers to insurgents and groups of individuals who, while possessing no uniforms, are organized/organizing against you.

And many of these same insurgents attack Americans with no regard for civilian life or limb. Its not because they are reckless, it is because they are self-interested.

Please, while I do not suggest you hang on Bush's every propagandistic spin of phrase, I urge you caution lest you fail to emphasize the savagery of the insurgents. Bush, for his own political purposes, has failed to emphasize the sectarian strife and slaughter that motivate many of these insurgents. The Sunni sectarian manner of slaughter is the suicide bomb, while Shias prefer to visit Sunni homes and use power drills to penetrate their foes' skulls.

There are many resistance groups in Iraq who do not actively attack American troops. That is because they are more concerned with protecting their own from rival sectarian attacks, and enforcing the law that the Americans have failed to enforce.

Meanwhile, many of the insurgents who do attack American forces do so for profit and personal gain.

There is no limit to the savagery of the various groups operating in Iraq, I don't deny it. I'm just so sick of how the word terrorist is thrown about these days. It seems like everyone and everyone who doesn't agree with the west or takes up arms against us is a terrorist. It has become an utterly meaningless word or to be more precise, is starting to take on new connotations . Words have a powerful effect on our psyche.

I have no doubt that in the future, anyone and everyone who dares disagree with, and or resists western ( or any other powers' agenda ) is going to be labelled a terrorist and thus subject to the worst possible reprisals. Does anyone have any doubt that war has just become a lot easier to innitiate? That internal slaughters against certain ethnic groups just got a hell of a lot easier?

I honestly think that we have yet to understand the consequences or truly comprehend the precedents this administration has set.

What does a Bathist fight for.

What does a Khomeni follower fight for?

What does an Al Qaedists fight for?

If the insurgents are fighting for Iraq then why are they fighting against Iraqs sort of democratically electied government.

Or why aren't the insurgents asking for independence.

Here is your answer the insurgents are fighting to conquer Iraq becaause they can't win an election to do so they need the US out of course or it doesn't end there

Mr. BlackCat

Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:24 am Post subject:

Homer Simpson = Infinitely more reputable than Ann Coulter. And less of a laughable cartoon.

TexasPete

Joined: 24 May 2006
Location: Koreatown

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:29 am Post subject:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

RJjr wrote:

The national debt when W took office: $5.7 trillion. Now: $9.4 trillion.

The price of oil when W took office: $26/barrel. Now: $137/barrel.

That speaks volumes.

Headlines like the one in this article becoming more common is particularly bad and shows how the government's inflation figures are blatant lies: http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/24/news/dow_prices.ap/index.htm?section=money_latest

Dow Chemical hiking prices 25%
Chemical company cites soaring energy costs for new price boost, following a 20% jump three weeks ago.
June 24, 2008: 9:38 AM EDT

Before Bush came to office 70,000 trained in AQ camps.

You can't blame Bush for the fact that China and India use much more oil or that there is less easy to find oil in the world.

He can be blamed for not closing the so-called Enron Loophole that allows rampant speculation which, if closed, would lower the price of oil significantly according to Congressional testimony. But no, instead, the new buzzword is offshore drilling which will have a negligable impact if any on the price of oil and won't bring oil to the market for years.

TexasPete

Joined: 24 May 2006
Location: Koreatown

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:31 am Post subject:

yawarakaijin wrote:

TexasPete wrote:

I'd hardly call it a tiny white lie when it's cost us $548,500,000,000.00 and climbing.

US troop losses are around 4,109 while Iraqi deaths are anywhere between 85,153 and over 650,000.

Neocons latest grasping at straws argument on why we're in Iraq is that we're fighting them there so we don't have to at home. By that logic, given that there are roughly 300,000,000 Americans, 73,010 Americans have been "kept safe" for every US troop death. OR, to put it another way, one American life is worth between 458 and 3,523 Iraqi lives.

spliff

Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:25 am Post subject:

Are even 1/4 of the people here that post anti-Bush even American....or are they SnowMexicans? Guess what idiots...Obama can't win! Should have went w/ the fat bitch... Although she would loose too. Moonbats just don't get money.

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:13 am Post subject:

TexasPete wrote:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

RJjr wrote:

Before Bush came to office 70,000 trained in AQ camps.

You can't blame Bush for the fact that China and India use much more oil or that there is less easy to find oil in the world.

sure it ought to have done something about the loophole but an drilling is not the total answer but it is a step in the right direction. It will help with the speculators.

There is nothing on the horizon that is going replace oil.

I am willing to invest whatever it takes to get free of oil but the situation is what it is.

Moreover taxing the oil companies is a terrible idea unless you are also going to tax imported oil in which case it becomes a good idea. But I don't see Obama proposing a tax on imported oil.

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:24 am Post subject:

TexasPete wrote:

yawarakaijin wrote:

TexasPete wrote:

I'd hardly call it a tiny white lie when it's cost us $548,500,000,000.00 and climbing.

The way the mideast was a threat to the US .

The US never invaded Iraq to invade the Iraq the US invaded Iraq to invade the middle east.Every life lost is a tragedy and it is never worth it. but the US lost more than 100,000 lives in the Korean and Vietnam wars.The war on terror is very much like the cold war.The US ought not be charged for those killed by the insurgents or insurgents killed unless one also takes in account that Saddam would have continued to slaughter the Kurds , re invade Kuwait and develop nuclear weapons to have a nuclear war against Israel. Lives saved count too.

A war to steal Iraq's oil would be wrong. A war to force mideast nations and elites to quit their war isn't. Anything the US does to force them to quit is okay.

nautilus

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:11 am Post subject:

yawarakaijin wrote:

I'm just so sick of how the word terrorist is thrown about these days. It seems like everyone and everyone who doesn't agree with the west or takes up arms against us is a terrorist. It has become an utterly meaningless word.

- a cowardly fighter who employs illegal or immoral methods (ie targetting women, children and other non-combatants) indiscriminately, with the intention to cause maximum terror particularly in the civilian population. As opposed to a uniformed soldier who stands up to face battle militarily against other declared combatants.

Surely many insurgents qualify?
i don't see marines going house to house raping women and killing civilians of rival ethnicity with power drills.

RJjr

Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:40 pm Post subject:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

RJjr wrote:

You can't blame Bush for the fact that China and India use much more oil or that there is less easy to find oil in the world.

The price of oil has gone up around 400% since the invasion of Iraq. If we bomb Iran and oil goes up to $600/barrel, there's no doubt that you'll say the spike in oil price is because of Chinese and Indian oil consumption.

The bottom line is that the American dollar is now the Bush peso.

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject:

RJjr wrote:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

RJjr wrote:

You can't blame Bush for the fact that China and India use much more oil or that there is less easy to find oil in the world.

At 150 175 so many other technologies will kick in. Oil from Shale , oil from coal.

But more than that just cause something will cause oil prices to go up is not a reason for the US to accept a war against it. Period.

Iran ought to give up their war. Period

Typical of the anti war movement "lets cover up the facts " in order to prevent war.

Appeasement period.

Just lucky the US didn't think that way during world war II.

In any case you haven't been accurate about the causes of the rise in oil price , not that it bothers you.

yawarakaijin

Joined: 08 Aug 2006

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject:

nautilus wrote:

yawarakaijin wrote:

Surely they do, but let us not pretend that our shit don't stink my friend.
Do you think the average Iraqi is any less terrified to have a 1,000 lbs bomb dropped on their home of have a jittery 19 year old rip into their car with a mounted machine gun?

I'm not taking any sides here, but war IS terror my friend. By your simple defintion what would you what call US, Britain and Canadian pilots did to Dresden in WW2. What would you call Hiroshima and Nagasaki? What would you call what the French Maquis did to some of their own citizens during the resistance?

If the killing of civillians in acceptable when it comes to meeting OUR goals why is it not when it comes to the sunni or shiites acheiving theirs? Does the difference lie simply in the methods or ideologies behind the killings? Some do take that stance and have some arguments for it.

Ya-ta Boy

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject:

Quote:

I'm not taking any sides here, but war IS terror my friend.

There is truth there, but doesn't using the word 'terror' in that way call into question the idea of legitimate government? Is there no difference between the actions of a legitimate government and a group of self-appointed disgruntled hotheads? Does it not call into question the whole concept of civilization? A key aspect of civilization was the rise of legitimate government, however determined, taking away the power of individuals to act violently in an effort to promote domestic security.

yawarakaijin

Joined: 08 Aug 2006

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:19 pm Post subject:

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

Quote:

I'm not taking any sides here, but war IS terror my friend.

So are you saying that only a "civilization" has the right to use war and terror to acheive its aims? I understand exactly what you are saying but it has a slightly ironic ring doesn't it?

At what then, if any, is the penalty for a civilization using these "legitimate" powers illegitimatly?

RJjr

Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject:

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:

Here are four predictions for the next 365 days.

1. The US national debt will continue to rise.
2. The dollar will continue its plunge in purchasing power.
3. Those two problems will cause oil to break your $175 mark.
4. You'll continue to want American men and women sent into combat, but you'll continue to refuse to serve alongside them.

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