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Gatsby
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
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 Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:11 am Post subject: |
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While the original post makes some interesting points, I do not think badmouthing Korean beef is the appropriate response to Koreans badmouthing American beef.
There may be some health risks to Korean beef, but you're not eating it raw, and you are presumably not eating cows brains raw, either. You cook it, right? Even if a cow were infected with BSE, the risk from eating cooked beef from it is extremely small.
Of course, there are other issues, such as pesticides and hormones. But we should apply the same standards. Are people actually getting sick from Korean beef? Is there scientific evidence that it is unsafe?
That said, yes, they should use modern testing methods and modern sanitary practices.
What scares me is Korean pork and fish. What are they feeding the pork, eh? Garbage, right? From homes, restaurants, and ....??? What's in the garbage? If it's vegetables, how much pesticide is on it? Some pesticides accumulate in fat tissue. So it could easily build up in the pig. Yet Koreans are proud of eating straight pig fat, lightly cooked. Sorry, not me, buddy. Pass.
And the fish. In the U.S., you hear lots of warnings about mercury in fish, especially fresh water fish on the East Coast, but also larger salt water fish. The Koreans I talk to have NEVER heard any such warnings. Does Korea test fish, and the rivers and lakes they live in, for mercury? Would they warn the public if they found a problem? Mercury will do a heck of a lot of damage to the developing brains of children, as well as causing mental aberrations in adults. It doesn't take much. And as a heavy metal, it tends to build up in your body.
Mercury is a byproduct of some types of electrical generating plants, as well as industrial pollution. Does Korea have tight pollution laws that would prevent mercury pollution?
Oh, and tuna generally has at least some mercury in it, and sometimes dangerous levels of the heavy metal.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2007/02/19/tuna-testing.html
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/babies-kids/child-safety/food/mercury-in-tuna/tuna-safety/overview/0607_tuna_ov.htm
These articles make it seem like the mercury in tuna issue is new, but the U.S. federal government has been warning about mercury in tuna at least since the early 1960s.
A little tuna won't hurt you, if you're not pregnant. But you shouldn't eat tuna every day. Yet, look at the tuna aisle in any Korean supermarket. Tuna and spam seem to be two staples in the Korean diet.
Spam is a Korean health food, and suitable for gift giving, yet American beef is poison.
American cows fed commercially produced, government inspected feed are a danger to Koreans, but Korean pigs fed uninspected, unrefrigerated, rotting garbage are not.
Go figure.
Korea, upside down. |
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thematrixiam
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:47 am Post subject: |
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GREAT... I eat tuna every day.
I wonder if I get bigger when it's warm out. |
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ryouga013
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| thematrixiam wrote: |
GREAT... I eat tuna every day.
I wonder if I get bigger when it's warm out. |
No, but you will melt... sorry, but I heard it on a Naver page, so it must be true... |
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michael5799042
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| Does the organic waste that you throw out get fed to the pigs? Because someone could throw any poisinous crap into that and then you would eat the poison in the pig. |
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regicide
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| michael5799042 wrote: |
Does the organic waste that you throw out get fed to the pigs? Because someone could throw any poisinous crap into that and then you would eat the poison in the pig. |
"American cows fed commercially produced, government inspected feed are a danger to Koreans, but Korean pigs fed uninspected, unrefrigerated, rotting garbage are not.
Go figure.
Korea, upside down"
It has been written that the focus on US Beef should lead to better standards in the industry. With that in mind, focusing on the conditions of the food industry in Korea is warranted in my opinion. |
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spliff
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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US beef importation begins today.  |
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komerican
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Frankly Mr Shankly wrote: |
| komerican wrote: |
| Frankly Mr Shankly wrote: |
| komerican wrote: |
Korean consumption of domestic beef is down 12% from last year. So for the public, obviously, it was always primarily a health issue along with the ineptitude of a new administration and not anti-Americanism. Of course the demagogues on this site and the hysterical and repetitive expat blogs will always see it differently, quoting of course their favorite conservative newspaper, the Chosen Ilbo. See chart:
http://media.daum.net/society/affair/view.html?cateid=1010&newsid=20080624030907549&cp=hankooki |
Do you care to address the PD Notebook MBC lies on which this was all based? |
There were no lies on that show. Please elaborate since you're the one making the charge. |
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200805/200805210025.htm
The MBC news program �PD Diary�, which broadcast the report on mad cow disease showing a staggering cow being dragged into a slaughterhouse and an American woman in her 20s said to have died from Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease -- the human form of the bovine disease -- has been ordered by the Press Arbitration Commission to air a statement saying the two key points made by the program are untrue.
There you have it folks, Komerican has been caught out lying saying that the PD Notebook program did not lie, when it did. Komerican, I know this will cause you massive loss of face, but you are wrong and a liar to boot. |
No one has proved anyone is a liar. The program made some editorial mistakes but the general message of the show was right on target. Hence the reason behind the government apologizing repeatedly on TV, in the newspapers. Everywhere they could apologize they did. 
It�s not surprising to me that you quote the Chosun Ilbo, which is a conservative newspaper. This is the same newspaper, btw, that criticized the Roh government for allowing meat with a few bone chips in them when Roh was president.
Also, the government is making a mistake in suing this show. It�s the gov. that made the mistakes. The Korean media market is large and they are going to have a tough time for the next 5 years if they start suing the media not to mention the chill this might put eventually on free speech.
As I cited in my post, domestic beef consumption is down. It could be for various factors but the price has always been high and has not previously affected the demand so significantly. The article I cited says the downturn in demand reflects the general public's unease about Korean safety standards for beef so the safety of beef imported or domestic does seem to affect the willingness of Korean consumers to buy beef.
| bassexpander wrote: |
| komerican wrote: |
| bassexpander wrote: |
| komerican wrote: |
Korean consumption of domestic beef is down 12% from last year. So for the public, obviously, it was always primarily a health issue along with the ineptitude of a new administration and not anti-Americanism. Of course the demagogues on this site and the hysterical and repetitive expat blogs will always see it differently, quoting of course their favorite conservative newspaper, the Chosen Ilbo. See chart:
http://media.daum.net/society/affair/view.html?cateid=1010&newsid=20080624030907549&cp=hankooki |
You think we need to quote a newspaper to prove what we see around us every day?
Apologist. |
Hater |
I'm a hater? How did you come to that? Please, feel free to post a link to whatever I said which brought that on.
Wow, I wonder what we should call the Koreans who pull anti-US beef arguments out of their butts which have zero fact behind them?
Really, you're a poor excuse for a troll. And you've been owned by just about everyone in this thread.
Pathetic. |
Well obviously anyone who disagrees with you on this issue is a troll or an apologist. It must be nice to live in a fantasy world where anything you say is fact and what other people say are lies. Why do you even come to a message board if you expect everyone to agree with you? What's ironic is that this sort of extreme attitude makes you the troll. |
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Morton
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Also, the government is making a mistake in suing this show. It�s the gov. that made the mistakes. The Korean media market is large and they are going to have a tough time for the next 5 years if they start suing the media not to mention the chill this might put eventually on free speech. |
I don't think broadcasting false statements, (known as lies to the rest of the world), should go unpunished. The government are correct to take action.
If you really worry about preserving the freedom of speech that you clearly hold so dear i would worry about the korean halfwits encouraging people to boycott papers that didn't fall for the mad-cow insanity.
I would have thought after being ruled by the Japanese for so long at least a little common sense would have been spunked into koreans. Unfortunately the majority of koreans seem to boycott common sense as well as US beef. |
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howie2424
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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komerican wrote
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| It�s not surprising to me that you quote the Chosun Ilbo, which is a conservative newspaper. This is the same newspaper, btw, that criticized the Roh government for allowing meat with a few bone chips in them when Roh was president. |
Link please
And btw, what�s wrong with a conservative newspaper? Could you please show me where they have made any factual mistakes in their reporting on this issue? I can, and have in many a thread, shown you where your allegedly reliable sources, were completely wrong in their reporting of facts on this matter. Here�s a short list
1)Koreans are 2-3 times more susceptible to mad cow disease than other people.
2)Americans don�t eat 30 month+ beef
3)The Lee administration, not Mr. Roh agreed to allow 30 month+ beef in.
4)Americans don�t import 30 month+ beef
5)Korea has no right to refuse US beef imports if there�s another outbreak of mad cow in the US
If you�d like a more extensive list of factual misconceptions you subscribe to I�d be happy to repeat them. Let me know.
The Chosun Ilbo, Joong Ang Ilbo and Dong-a Ilbo have all reported the facts on this issue quite accurately. Your sources have chosen a different route, reporting exaggerations, half truths and in many cases, outright falsehoods. Now you attack the reliable sources, and not on the basis of the accuracy in their reporting, but rather on the basis of their political leaning. This truly is the refuge of the simple minded. You can�t prove their reporting is factually incorrect so you simply dismiss them because they�re �conservative�.
| Quote: |
| No one has proved anyone is a liar. The program made some editorial mistakes but the general message of the show was right on target. Hence the reason behind the government apologizing repeatedly on TV, in the newspapers. Everywhere they could apologize they did. |
The general message of the show was that US beef was a danger to Koreans. Not just the 30 month stuff either. The science clearly shows that this was incorrect. You have an odd definition of �right on target�. The government apologized for its handling of the beef issue but never conceded that US beef was unsafe to consume. There was no connection between those apologies and the PD Notebook segment. You may want to think there was, but let�s face it, that�s just more wishful thinking and self delusion on your part.
| Quote: |
| Also, the government is making a mistake in suing this show. It�s the gov. that made the mistakes. The Korean media market is large and they are going to have a tough time for the next 5 years if they start suing the media not to mention the chill this might put eventually on free speech. |
And where was your firm and unbending commitment to free speech when Mr. Roh was doing the same thing during his administration? And what about the goons who are running around harassing companies advertising with the Chosun Ilbo, Joong Ang Ilbo, etc. How committed are they to free speech? |
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Thunndarr
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Ferrous Cranus is utterly impervious to reason, persuasion and new ideas, and when engaged in battle he will not yield an inch in his position regardless of its hopelessness. Though his thrusts are decisively repulsed, his arguments crushed in every detail and his defenses demolished beyond repair he will remount the same attack again and again with only the slightest variation in tactics. Sometimes out of pure frustration Philosopher will try to explain to him the failed logistics of his situation, or Therapist will attempt to penetrate the psychological origins of his obduracy, but, ever unfathomable, Ferrous Cranus cannot be moved. |
Hmm...who does this remind me of? |
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wanamin
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| howie2424 wrote: |
[b]komerican wrote[/b]
| Quote: |
| It�s not surprising to me that you quote the Chosun Ilbo, which is a conservative newspaper. This is the same newspaper, btw, that criticized the Roh government for allowing meat with a few bone chips in them when Roh was president. |
Link please
And btw, what�s wrong with a conservative newspaper? Could you please show me where they have made any factual mistakes in their reporting on this issue? I can, and have in many a thread, shown you where your allegedly reliable sources, were completely wrong in their reporting of facts on this matter. Here�s a short list
1)Koreans are 2-3 times more susceptible to mad cow disease than other people.
2)Americans don�t eat 30 month+ beef
3)The Lee administration, not Mr. Roh agreed to allow 30 month+ beef in.
4)Americans don�t import 30 month+ beef
5)Korea has no right to refuse US beef imports if there�s another outbreak of mad cow in the US
If you�d like a more extensive list of factual misconceptions you subscribe to I�d be happy to repeat them. Let me know.
The Chosun Ilbo, Joong Ang Ilbo and Dong-a Ilbo have all reported the facts on this issue quite accurately. Your sources have chosen a different route, reporting exaggerations, half truths and in many cases, outright falsehoods. Now you attack the reliable sources, and not on the basis of the accuracy in their reporting, but rather on the basis of their political leaning. This truly is the refuge of the simple minded. You can�t prove their reporting is factually incorrect so you simply dismiss them because they�re �conservative�.
| Quote: |
| No one has proved anyone is a liar. The program made some editorial mistakes but the general message of the show was right on target. Hence the reason behind the government apologizing repeatedly on TV, in the newspapers. Everywhere they could apologize they did. |
The general message of the show was that US beef was a danger to Koreans. Not just the 30 month stuff either. The science clearly shows that this was incorrect. You have an odd definition of �right on target�. The government apologized for its handling of the beef issue but never conceded that US beef was unsafe to consume. There was no connection between those apologies and the PD Notebook segment. You may want to think there was, but let�s face it, that�s just more wishful thinking and self delusion on your part.
| Quote: |
| Also, the government is making a mistake in suing this show. It�s the gov. that made the mistakes. The Korean media market is large and they are going to have a tough time for the next 5 years if they start suing the media not to mention the chill this might put eventually on free speech. |
And where was your firm and unbending commitment to free speech when Mr. Roh was doing the same thing during his administration? And what about the goons who are running around harassing companies advertising with the Chosun Ilbo, Joong Ang Ilbo, etc. How committed are they to free speech? |
Howie2424, you seem like an intelligent guy.
So why haven't you figured it out yet?
Kormerican is really good at sounding like he's making logical, rational agruments, but in reality, he's just FOS.
He doesn't believe in rational discourse, and he NEVER lets little things like facts or science get in the way of what he believes. Much like President Bush, he goes with his gut, because he knows that his gut is smarter than his mind.
He will believe what he believes until the rest of the Korean public changes its collective mind, and then he'll go on to regurgitating whatever irrational argument they're making.
Stop wasting your time! |
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ulsanchris
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Location: take a wild guess
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| No one has proved anyone is a liar. The program made some editorial mistakes but the general message of the show was right on target. Hence the reason behind the government apologizing repeatedly on TV, in the newspapers. Everywhere they could apologize they did. Laughing |
You didn't read the news article in which the translator for the program defended her translation and in which she accused the editors of deliberately using false translations. Meaning that the editors there purposefully spread misinformation. ie they lied. I don't think the government should have apologized. They did nothing wrong. The decision to allow US beef was not wrong. But 2MB did not handle the public relations end of it well. He seriously messed up there.
The whole reason this whole situation exploded is because certain members of the political left have caused public fear by purposefully spreading lies, misinformation and rumours. IF the left had kept silent, or at the very least had not resorted to such underhanded tactics this whole situation most likely would have been avoided. [/quote] |
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bovinerebel
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| howie2424 wrote: |
komerican wrote
| Quote: |
| It�s not surprising to me that you quote the Chosun Ilbo, which is a conservative newspaper. This is the same newspaper, btw, that criticized the Roh government for allowing meat with a few bone chips in them when Roh was president. |
Link please
And btw, what�s wrong with a conservative newspaper? Could you please show me where they have made any factual mistakes in their reporting on this issue? I can, and have in many a thread, shown you where your allegedly reliable sources, were completely wrong in their reporting of facts on this matter. Here�s a short list
1)Koreans are 2-3 times more susceptible to mad cow disease than other people.
2)Americans don�t eat 30 month+ beef
3)The Lee administration, not Mr. Roh agreed to allow 30 month+ beef in.
4)Americans don�t import 30 month+ beef
5)Korea has no right to refuse US beef imports if there�s another outbreak of mad cow in the US
If you�d like a more extensive list of factual misconceptions you subscribe to I�d be happy to repeat them. Let me know.
The Chosun Ilbo, Joong Ang Ilbo and Dong-a Ilbo have all reported the facts on this issue quite accurately. Your sources have chosen a different route, reporting exaggerations, half truths and in many cases, outright falsehoods. Now you attack the reliable sources, and not on the basis of the accuracy in their reporting, but rather on the basis of their political leaning. This truly is the refuge of the simple minded. You can�t prove their reporting is factually incorrect so you simply dismiss them because they�re �conservative�.
| Quote: |
| No one has proved anyone is a liar. The program made some editorial mistakes but the general message of the show was right on target. Hence the reason behind the government apologizing repeatedly on TV, in the newspapers. Everywhere they could apologize they did. |
The general message of the show was that US beef was a danger to Koreans. Not just the 30 month stuff either. The science clearly shows that this was incorrect. You have an odd definition of �right on target�. The government apologized for its handling of the beef issue but never conceded that US beef was unsafe to consume. There was no connection between those apologies and the PD Notebook segment. You may want to think there was, but let�s face it, that�s just more wishful thinking and self delusion on your part.
| Quote: |
| Also, the government is making a mistake in suing this show. It�s the gov. that made the mistakes. The Korean media market is large and they are going to have a tough time for the next 5 years if they start suing the media not to mention the chill this might put eventually on free speech. |
And where was your firm and unbending commitment to free speech when Mr. Roh was doing the same thing during his administration? And what about the goons who are running around harassing companies advertising with the Chosun Ilbo, Joong Ang Ilbo, etc. How committed are they to free speech? |
Pwned. |
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Scotticus
Joined: 18 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| bovinerebel wrote: |
Pwned. |
If getting pwned mattered at all to Komerican, he would have stopped posting a long time ago. The fact that he continues shows either something is wrong with him or he's a sock for a VERY bored person. |
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komerican
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| howie2424 wrote: |
komerican wrote
| Quote: |
| It�s not surprising to me that you quote the Chosun Ilbo, which is a conservative newspaper. This is the same newspaper, btw, that criticized the Roh government for allowing meat with a few bone chips in them when Roh was president. |
Link please
And btw, what�s wrong with a conservative newspaper? Could you please show me where they have made any factual mistakes in their reporting on this issue? I can, and have in many a thread, shown you where your allegedly reliable sources, were completely wrong in their reporting of facts on this matter. Here�s a short list
1)Koreans are 2-3 times more susceptible to mad cow disease than other people.
2)Americans don�t eat 30 month+ beef
3)The Lee administration, not Mr. Roh agreed to allow 30 month+ beef in.
4)Americans don�t import 30 month+ beef
5)Korea has no right to refuse US beef imports if there�s another outbreak of mad cow in the US
If you�d like a more extensive list of factual misconceptions you subscribe to I�d be happy to repeat them. Let me know.
The Chosun Ilbo, Joong Ang Ilbo and Dong-a Ilbo have all reported the facts on this issue quite accurately. Your sources have chosen a different route, reporting exaggerations, half truths and in many cases, outright falsehoods. Now you attack the reliable sources, and not on the basis of the accuracy in their reporting, but rather on the basis of their political leaning. This truly is the refuge of the simple minded. You can�t prove their reporting is factually incorrect so you simply dismiss them because they�re �conservative�.
| Quote: |
| No one has proved anyone is a liar. The program made some editorial mistakes but the general message of the show was right on target. Hence the reason behind the government apologizing repeatedly on TV, in the newspapers. Everywhere they could apologize they did. |
The general message of the show was that US beef was a danger to Koreans. Not just the 30 month stuff either. The science clearly shows that this was incorrect. You have an odd definition of �right on target�. The government apologized for its handling of the beef issue but never conceded that US beef was unsafe to consume. There was no connection between those apologies and the PD Notebook segment. You may want to think there was, but let�s face it, that�s just more wishful thinking and self delusion on your part.
| Quote: |
| Also, the government is making a mistake in suing this show. It�s the gov. that made the mistakes. The Korean media market is large and they are going to have a tough time for the next 5 years if they start suing the media not to mention the chill this might put eventually on free speech. |
And where was your firm and unbending commitment to free speech when Mr. Roh was doing the same thing during his administration? And what about the goons who are running around harassing companies advertising with the Chosun Ilbo, Joong Ang Ilbo, etc. How committed are they to free speech? |
There are plenty of articles in the Chosun Ilbo raising questions about Roh's beef policy. For example, here's a 2007 article in the Chosun talking about the importance of the 30 month line and the bone in beef issue:
http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2007/09/06/2007090601225.html
Sept. 2007 article, Chosun Ilbo:
30개월령 미만인 이유는 광우병 발생 가능성이 낮기 때문이다. 전세계적으로 광우병은 약 19만건 발생했지만, 30개월 미만 소에서 나타난 것은 24건으로 0.01%에 불과하다.
The article is talking about how 30 months is the line between safety and mad cow disease.
I also debunked all the points you mention in your post (1-5) in this thread.
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=1688114&highlight=#1688114
as for the boycott, clearly a government suing a media organization is a different kettle of fish from citizens organizing a boycott. And of course I mention that they are a "conservative" paper since it would be naive to deny that there isn't some partisan politics going on here. |
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