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Temporary
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
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 Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Komerican has little to no credibility he has been caught in more then one lie. Ignore him most trolls dispear if you do. |
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ulsanchris
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Location: take a wild guess
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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Koamerican trying to compare the actions of the US cattlemans association to the korean public is not very useful. For one Most people can easily see that THe USCMA was trying to protect their market and, I think, most americans would not have believed them. Or at least would have been skeptical. Also I don't think there were any mass rallies of americans protesting canadian beef. Also I very much doubt that any americans were trying to claim that canada was trying to poison them.
There is no way you can logically defend the outright distortions that were presented by some members of the korean press and the people who spread rumours on the internet. As time goes by their distortions have been refuted and we are learning of how they actively propagated them. Also, and rather importantly, we have learned who has been organizing the protesters. The same left-wing anti-american groups that have been protesting against the US for years. Their sympaythy to north korea and the fact that north korean spies are often parts of these groups is well known. These groups are not to be trusted. For a long time it has been obvious that the protests have been part of a plan by the korean left to undermine 2MB and the US - Korea alliance. So far it has been working. |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| komerican wrote: |
They gained what they originally
intended. 2MB's polical enemies have won. |
Fixed.
| Quote: |
The
purpose of the protests was never to stop
all imports. It was never about anti-
Americanism. The public was told for 5
years that beef over 30 months was
dangerous |
Complete hogwash.
| Quote: |
and then saw their president
use beef as a bargaining chip in
negotiations with no rational explanations
about the new standards. The opposition parties
rightly said no, and riled up the public with lies. |
Fixed.
| Quote: |
they
had to change key members of the
government. Also, Lee apologized twice
and will change the way he does
business. These are significant changes |
Yeah, these are changes, but they are typical of how the gov't works. Whether or not people are actually guilty of anything, they apologize and resign their post. I'm not surprised the gov't never gets anything done of any importance. They have to train the new guy every few months or so and bring him up to speed.
| Quote: |
Kudos
to the active Korean public who practice
real democracy instead of the
complacency we see in other so called
democratic countries. |
Destruction of police buses and physically attacking the police is democracy? |
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howie2424
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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You may also want to note the fact that Canada has had 13 confirmed cases of BSE since 2003 including one yesterday in BC. Canada had 5 confirmed cases in 2006 alone. If the US beef industry had those numbers all this nonsense in Korea would make a lot more sense.
http://ca.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idCAN2327044720080624 |
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komerican
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ulsanchris wrote: |
Koamerican trying to compare the actions of the US cattlemans association to the korean public is not very useful. For one Most people can easily see that THe USCMA was trying to protect their market and, I think, most americans would not have believed them. Or at least would have been skeptical. Also I don't think there were any mass rallies of americans protesting canadian beef. Also I very much doubt that any americans were trying to claim that canada was trying to poison them.
There is no way you can logically defend the outright distortions that were presented by some members of the korean press and the people who spread rumours on the internet. As time goes by their distortions have been refuted and we are learning of how they actively propagated them. Also, and rather importantly, we have learned who has been organizing the protesters. The same left-wing anti-american groups that have been protesting against the US for years. Their sympaythy to north korea and the fact that north korean spies are often parts of these groups is well known. These groups are not to be trusted. For a long time it has been obvious that the protests have been part of a plan by the korean left to undermine 2MB and the US - Korea alliance. So far it has been working. |
I see your point Ulsanchris, but I have to disagree with you. Since we aren't in America we have to get used to the idea that people do things differently. I mentioned before that 100,000 people protested in the streets in London when Bush visited Britain in 2003. Korea also has a long history of street protests going back to the 2 million man march against the Imperial Japanese in 1919.
George Bush, aka, "Toxic Texan" seems to brings out the demonstration instinct in people. To blame it all on the courageous Korean public is pure demagoguery and a product of the typical expat mob mentality whose only source into Korean society is the Chosun Ilbo.
The fact is Ulsan, the Expats here defending what are in fact Bush's failed policies look very much like the ultra-nationalists they are accusing Koreans of being. While I agree that those groups you mentioned are involved in this the fact is many people from all walks of life turned out for these protests. The fact is the government did not prepare the people for this sudden change in a 5 year policy that they in fact had supported up to now. You cite Canada, but clearly the US has a very close relationship with Canada both economically and culturally. Also the USDA did not make their decisions with regard to Canadian beef in relation to a FTA or improved ties or a ridiculous meeting at Camp David.
It�s clear that the people of Korea have taken a direct and courageous step in fighting their government�s mistake. The expat community, I�m afraid, represents the interest of the elite who take an arrogant and patronizing attitude toward Koreans and regard Koreans as �mad� and �idiots�. Newspapers and columnists in NA have taken a much more sympathetic stance. Expats will stay in Korea only for a few years but Korean parents and their children will be eating this beef from now until doomsday.
It�s important to get this right. We cannot trust a neophyte government that is too eager to make a deal and we certainly do not trust George W. Bush�s failed policies. Basically, George Bush has NO credibility. The next president may be no better but bring �em on. Sorry, but Koreans are not going to be "bulldozed" into any policy they are not confident in. |
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komerican
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| howie2424 wrote: |
You may also want to note the fact that Canada has had 13 confirmed cases of BSE since 2003 including one yesterday in BC. Canada had 5 confirmed cases in 2006 alone. If the US beef industry had those numbers all this nonsense in Korea would make a lot more sense.
http://ca.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idCAN2327044720080624 |
I read this on a Korean site also. Isn't Canadian live cattle and beef entering the US now? |
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bovinerebel
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| komerican wrote: |
| ulsanchris wrote: |
Koamerican trying to compare the actions of the US cattlemans association to the korean public is not very useful. For one Most people can easily see that THe USCMA was trying to protect their market and, I think, most americans would not have believed them. Or at least would have been skeptical. Also I don't think there were any mass rallies of americans protesting canadian beef. Also I very much doubt that any americans were trying to claim that canada was trying to poison them.
There is no way you can logically defend the outright distortions that were presented by some members of the korean press and the people who spread rumours on the internet. As time goes by their distortions have been refuted and we are learning of how they actively propagated them. Also, and rather importantly, we have learned who has been organizing the protesters. The same left-wing anti-american groups that have been protesting against the US for years. Their sympaythy to north korea and the fact that north korean spies are often parts of these groups is well known. These groups are not to be trusted. For a long time it has been obvious that the protests have been part of a plan by the korean left to undermine 2MB and the US - Korea alliance. So far it has been working. |
I see your point Ulsanchris, but I have to disagree with you. Since we aren't in America we have to get used to the idea that people do things differently. I mentioned before that 100,000 people protested in the streets in London when Bush visited Britain in 2003. Korea also has a long history of street protests going back to the 2 million man march against the Imperial Japanese in 1919.
George Bush, aka, "Toxic Texan" seems to brings out the demonstration instinct in people. To blame it all on the courageous Korean public is pure demagoguery and a product of the typical expat mob mentality whose only source into Korean society is the Chosun Ilbo.
The fact is Ulsan, the Expats here defending what are in fact Bush's failed policies look very much like the ultra-nationalists they are accusing Koreans of being. While I agree that those groups you mentioned are involved in this the fact is many people from all walks of life turned out for these protests. The fact is the government did not prepare the people for this sudden change in a 5 year policy that they in fact had supported up to now. You cite Canada, but clearly the US has a very close relationship with Canada both economically and culturally. Also the USDA did not make their decisions with regard to Canadian beef in relation to a FTA or improved ties or a ridiculous meeting at Camp David.
It�s clear that the people of Korea have taken a direct and courageous step in fighting their government�s mistake. The expat community, I�m afraid, represents the interest of the elite who take an arrogant and patronizing attitude toward Koreans and regard Koreans as �mad� and �idiots�. Newspapers and columnists in NA have taken a much more sympathetic stance. Expats will stay in Korea only for a few years but Korean parents and their children will be eating this beef from now until doomsday.
It�s important to get this right. We cannot trust a neophyte government that is too eager to make a deal and we certainly do not trust George W. Bush�s failed policies. Basically, George Bush has NO credibility. The next president may be no better but bring �em on. Sorry, but Koreans are not going to be "bulldozed" into any policy they are not confident in. |
Give it up man. You're finished. Newspapers and collumnists in North America don't live here and get to hear what it's really about : anti americanism and gross distortions of facts. If they knew about middle school students hysterically crying about how America was trying to poisen them , you'd be lucky if American didn't mass boycott you. You may be able to fool them that these demonstrations were carried out my rational people in full posession of the scientific facts...but don't try and fool us please. We listened day after day to the nonsense being bought into about poisenous meat that american's wouldn't even give to their dogs and the likes. Don't try and tell us things we saw and heard do not represent these perfectly "rational and well informed mobs". It's insulting .
Also don't try and sell us this backpeddled version of events that it's about 30 month beef. It's about anti -americanism and patriotism. Koreans feeling united against the evil empire and making a stand. Well guess what ....despite the illusion and diplomacy what Korea wants really does not matter. Korea will trade on American terms whether Korea likes it or not. Nobody would notice if Americans stopped buying Korean products for a moment....but Korea sure would notice.
Last edited by bovinerebel on Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ulsanchris
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Location: take a wild guess
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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Korea may have long history of street protests. However in this case, unlike many in the past, there really isn't anything to protest over. The fact of the matter is that the basis for the protests has been fabricated by the political left. Unfortunately the korean public believes that falsehoods that have been spread. Koreans may protest all they want but in this case they are not justified.
Comparing the beef protests to the protests that faced Bush in London is like comparing apples and oranges. The one protest was based on falsehoods while the other was to protest the government that lied to the people in order to gain support for a dubious war. Which do you think has more justification?
Also this issue doesn't have much to do with Bush. Or even 2MB sucking up to Bush. Everybody and their dog knew that the FTA and american beef were linked together. The Democratic congress long ago linked the FTA with the opening of Korea's beef market to American beef. Also Roh promised to let American beef in if it passed OIE inspection. Which it did. Roh probably didn't want to deal with the political ramifications so he passed on the buck to his successor.
We all know many people from all walks of life joined the protests, but we have to look behind that at the people who were working behind the scenes. They did a marvelous job of mobilizing people beyond their core. They hit the right message of fear. The left came out with a well organized propaganda machine the fed lies to the people and instilled fear into them. It is very difficult to counter fear with rational arguments. Especially when anyone who tries to use reason is shouted down and intimidated.
I will agree that some people have been less than kind to koreans and their mentality over this issue. Not all koreans have bought into this campaign. Otherwise all the newspapers would have been distorting the facts and spreading fear. Some comments made were not justified however some were.
I will say many korean were irrational over this. they failed to use objective thinking and blinded followed the crowd. there are just to many examples of extreme behaviour and mindblowingly foolish statements made by koreans to not conclude that a large number of koreans descended into hysteria.
You seem to keep shifting your arguments. Bringing up things that are at best tenuously linked to this issue. This suggests that you are on the losing end. |
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Temporary
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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Komerican is a troll.
Any who..
Logic comes to Korea if it feels suicidal and wants to die.
Last edited by Temporary on Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bovinerebel
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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I will agree that some people have been less than kind to koreans and their mentality over this issue. Not all koreans have bought into this campaign. Otherwise all the newspapers would have been distorting the facts and spreading fear. Some comments made were not justified however some were.
I will say many korean were irrational over this. they failed to use objective thinking and blinded followed the crowd. there are just to many examples of extreme behaviour and mindblowingly foolish statements made by koreans to not conclude that a large number of koreans descended into hysteria.
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Well said. People set themselves on fire for F-sakes ! What bothers me is how willing and ready Koreans are to believe anything bad about other countries without question. How quickly they are to "form a lager" and not allow in any alternative "un korean" views. The nationalism in this country trumps any form of rationality and value of thinking for yourself and while that happens Korea will never catch up to the West.
For the record...I'm anti-american in almost all aspects. I hate their foriegn policy , their government , their rabid malchiavelian capatalism , their corrupt corporate fueled politicians , their reality tv shows , their dumbed down news and sitcoms........but I'm firmly in their corner on this one. |
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Kiarell
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| It's not just about the beef, it's about a slippery slope to fascism where public opinion is ignored. If the public as a whole is wrong it's only because corporate news lies all the time (see public opinion in USA regarding Iraq in 2002, the spike during the invasion lead up, and the withdrawal of support a few years later). To espouse anything else is to be an elitist, misanthropic, pawn of power. Or if you only consider a *certain* people to be stupid then you are a racist. |
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Temporary
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| Its called superficiality and Koreans are chalk full of it. |
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