|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
wylde
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
|
 Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:54 am Post subject: |
 |
|
rent and expenses 2 mil a month
2 foreign teachers and 2 korean teachers 6-7 mil a month
100 students at 100 thou a month 10 mil
200 and you kik ass.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
I (we) intend to open a hagwon in a few years.
Here's the plan.
The teachers:
- Hired based mainly on personality.
- Mandatory full-time Korean study funded by the hagwon (16-20 hrs per week for about 2 years).
- Should Korean study finally by finished, mandatory online masters program in a field relating to education (2-3 years).
- 25 hour work week.
- Korean virgins (by that I mean people who have never set foot in Korea and preferably have travelled very little at all).
- Preferably with a B.Ed.
The program:
- 10 levels given in 100 or 200 hour courses 4 times a year.
- Curriculum initially based on both New Interchange and New Headway, but possibly developing our own materials over a period of a few years.
- 12 students per class.
- Possibly (eventually) farming out some teachers to companies who need ESP courses.
The facilities:
- All classrooms with a projector and speakers hooked up to a computer.
- All audio/video materials on the computer hard drive.
- Three or four students per table to maximize practice in groups.
- Subscriptions to a whack of English magazines to grace the lounge.
Initially no children:
- Children are inherently evil and we want nothing to do with them. Hence our focus is on adult education.
- Should we become successful we'll hire an outsider to design a kids' program and we'll stay as physically distant from it as possible.
A lot of other stuff, but that's the outline. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
panthermodern
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Taxronto
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
My Hakwon ideals ...
Benifits for Teachers:
Good Housing:
Livable Salary (Monthly min.)
Many preformance based bonuses.
The better you are the more you make.
Company Policies:
Experienced Instructors (Korean experience)
All contracts followed to the letter and in case of disbute and zero fault, the instructors argument in favoured.
Zero tolerances on contract breaches regardless of the individual. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Circus Monkey
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: In my coconut tree
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 12:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| panthermodern wrote: |
My Hakwon ideals ...
Benifits for Teachers:
Good Housing:
Livable Salary (Monthly min.)
Many preformance based bonuses.
The better you are the more you make.
Company Policies:
Experienced Instructors (Korean experience)
All contracts followed to the letter and in case of disbute and zero fault, the instructors argument in favoured.
Zero tolerances on contract breaches regardless of the individual. |
Indeed. Contrast that with what a typical hagwon owner prefers:
The teacher:
1. Crap housing. Or shared housing with the boss or a family member near a noisy part of town. Maybe even in a yogwan.
2. Infrequent salary with 101 excuses to give to the foreigner if questioned.
3. No incentives to develop oneself or clauses to reward performance. Unless favouritism can be deemed "incentive."
4. Be sure to have a gurk around with no apparent funtion or duties sitting around the office as well. Well, he's supposed to spy on you.
The "school"
1. Best to get the instructor fresh off the boat and pump them full of misinformation. When I first came to Korea, I was told that a city neary 50 minutes by car from a major city was merely a "suburb" of that big city. Since when do suburbs have their own city halls?
2. Contracts are merely tools to play with the foreigner's mind.
Etc...
Sour grapes? Nope. Merely the reality folks. There are good hagwons out there, but that sad fact is that hagwon bosses have no clue about education, and many don't have an idea on how to run a business.
CM |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hellofaniceguy
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 12:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Why ruin a good thing? I'd continue the tradition of not paying severance, airfare, slimmy housing, low pay and many classes! Hey, business is business! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
Its sadly true that many of us who complain at how poorly we are treated as employees would quickly become as bad as our bosses if we inherited their shoes. Power corrupts.
If I owned a hakwon for kids i would try to implement a system of rigid discipline. Kids consistently disobeying the basic rules of application, respect and good behavior, would be kicked out. I believe that the results would be good, and attract more parents to enroll their little darlings.
The current money- spinning hakwon system is failing, and parents are becoming dissillusioned.
My ideal hakwon:
1) a separate teachers room, no kids allowed.
2) Full teacher induction programme taught by a waegook headteacher.
3) An adequate system of reward and punishment for kids. Persistent offendors expelled.
4) proper range of teaching resources.
5) A comprehensive, workable, and well planned syllabus.
6) Competitive wages for TEFL qualified and experienced staff.
7) Proper channels of communication from Manager down to staff. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 4:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| the_beaver wrote: |
I (we) intend to open a hagwon in a few years.
Here's the plan.
The teachers:
- Hired based mainly on personality.
- Mandatory full-time Korean study funded by the hagwon (16-20 hrs per week for about 2 years).
- Should Korean study finally by finished, mandatory online masters program in a field relating to education (2-3 years).
- 25 hour work week.
- Korean virgins (by that I mean people who have never set foot in Korea and preferably have travelled very little at all).
- Preferably with a B.Ed.
.
- Possibly (eventually) farming out some teachers to companies who need ESP courses.
. |
Hireing based on personality does not necessarily mean that the person is a great teacher or a great human beings. Some psychopaths are extremely charming and beliveable.
As for manadatory Korean studies? You'd have people pulling midnight runs right and left and center. Most people come for one year. They look at a typical hakwon and see thirty hours. Then they look at yours and see 45 hours. 25 hour-work week and 20 hours of mandatory study. I doubt you'd get enough teachers to work there with that clause. And I seriously doubt any teacher would want to work at the same hakwon for FIVE years, without wanting a major pay raise. Especially when they can get the same money for less work elsewhere.
Why Korea virgins? Figure they don't know the difference? On weekends when they met other foreigners who don't have mandatory Korea studies and only work 30 hours a week, they will soon learn. If people want to learn Korean, they will. If they don't they will just resent any hakwon that forces it down their throat. Again, you would have a problem with getting enough teachers to work there (given the longer hours) and keeping them.
"Farming" out teachers is illegal.
Sorry, but I can't see this idea ever getting off the ground, due to lack of teachers. Unless of course you plan on paying them at least 2.5 million a month. It sounds good in principle, but human nature being what it is, I think the vast majority of teachers would see it as a rip-off. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Hireing based on personality does not necessarily mean that the person is a great teacher or a great human beings. Some psychopaths are extremely charming and beliveable. |
Some psychopaths are extremely charming, but I doubt if there's any larger a percentage of charming people who are pscyhopaths than ordinary shmoos who are pychopaths -- same chance either way. In my experience the people with good personalities make the best teachers, and all the credentials in the world doesn't make a dufus palatable to students.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| As for manadatory Korean studies? You'd have people pulling midnight runs right and left and center. Most people come for one year. They look at a typical hakwon and see thirty hours. Then they look at yours and see 45 hours. 25 hour-work week and 20 hours of mandatory study. I doubt you'd get enough teachers to work there with that clause. And I seriously doubt any teacher would want to work at the same hakwon for FIVE years, without wanting a major pay raise. Especially when they can get the same money for less work elsewhere. |
But, with 6 weeks of holiday a year. . .
Anyway, you're right, the average person would look at the workload and run -- we don't want the average person. We'll try to get some starry-eyed people who are as interested in the cultural experience as the money (as I was) because, in my experience, such people tend to have a more positive view of Korean life and that makes them nicer to work with and better teachers. We want people who would say (as I would): "Shit, I get to study Korean full-time and work? -- hot damn!"
As well, in my experience the best teachers are usually language learners, and we want our teachers to understand it from the students' standpoint.
And we would give pay raises, as well as performance bonuses. We don't expect many people to stay for five years, in any case. But, if we are successful enough to that we are open for five years then we might look into franchising, in which case any 5-year vets would be given first crack as well as financing.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Why Korea virgins? Figure they don't know the difference? On weekends when they met other foreigners who don't have mandatory Korea studies and only work 30 hours a week, they will soon learn. If people want to learn Korean, they will. If they don't they will just resent any hakwon that forces it down their throat. Again, you would have a problem with getting enough teachers to work there (given the longer hours) and keeping them. |
Of course they'll learn -- we intend to tell any interested people how we stack up against other places. Again, we hope to attract people like us. People who have no interest in Korean won't have any interest in our hagwon -- and that's fine.
We want Korea virgins because we don't want pre-conceived notions about Korea, but, more importantly, we want people that have never heard of "free talking" or "just keep 'em amused." People who say"lesson plan? what's that?" are also not attractive. We'd also kind of like people who aren't staying in Korea to extend their university lifestyles and preface every conversation with "I was so wasted last weekend." Granted, a lot of people in Korea aren't like that, but I've seen a lot of people become that. We'd like to indoctrinate our teachers with our teaching philosophy and style before they take that slide.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| "Farming" out teachers is illegal. |
Nope. I'm working at another job next month and it's all legal and everything (passport stamp, scribbling on the back of my alien card). I've done it a few times over the years. Just requires the right paperwork.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Sorry, but I can't see this idea ever getting off the ground, due to lack of teachers. Unless of course you plan on paying them at least 2.5 million a month. It sounds good in principle, but human nature being what it is, I think the vast majority of teachers would see it as a rip-off. |
I think you're right that the vast majority of teachers would see it as a rip off. We want the ones who see it as an opportunity to learn the language in 2 years and to get experience in a structured teaching environment. I personally have known people who work full time and study full time (as I have done on occasion) -- that's who we want.
We also are in a favorable position. My job will sign me off to work anywhere I want as long as it doesn't interfere with my teaching there. My partner(s) are likely to get a similar position. Therefore, we have teachers with a primary source of income (and low base hours) who are available to teach at low income while we try to build a customer base.
If it doesn't work it doesn't work. If it does, it could be pretty good. . . |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Man known as The Man
Joined: 29 Mar 2003
Location: 3 cheers for Ted Haggard oh yeah!
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| buddy bradley wrote: |
| I wouldn't hire Kiwis or Canadians, although I would interview them. |
Would you hire Korean women and sexually harrass them? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Paji eh Wong
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
We want Korea virgins because we don't want pre-conceived notions about Korea, but, more importantly, we want people that have never heard of "free talking" or "just keep 'em amused." People who say"lesson plan? what's that?" are also not attractive. We'd also kind of like people who aren't staying in Korea to extend their university lifestyles and preface every conversation with "I was so wasted last weekend." Granted, a lot of people in Korea aren't like that, but I've seen a lot of people become that. We'd like to indoctrinate our teachers with our teaching philosophy and style before they take that slide.
|
I applied to a school in Thailand that did something like this. They wouldn't hire anybody with teaching experience in Thailand. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Circus Monkey
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: In my coconut tree
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| rapier wrote: |
| Its sadly true that many of us who complain at how poorly we are treated as employees would quickly become as bad as our bosses if we inherited their shoes. Power corrupts. |
I see what you mean here, but it does not necessarily follow that if I or you owned a hagwon that we would adopt the practices that many hagwon owners practice. We might have to change some things, true. But suddenly go out and cheat the teachers left, right, and center?
The problem is that Korea in general is corrupt and perhaps if one of us owned a hagwon we would have to become more ruthless in order to survive. Perhaps I still cling to the naive belief that good, quality products sell. Either that or lots of heavy-duty marketing.
CM |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 4:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I would progress through the material at a sane pace.
The student would study each verb tense until he or she is able to understand, read, write, and yes--even use that verb tense in complete sentences.
If I can't find a textbook series which spend this much time on each verb tense, I would write one.
If the parents complain because their children aren't covering enough pages, I would write 200 pages on each verb tense.
No alumnus of my school would ever have to say, "Teacher, bathroom."
I would stock up on songs, games, and picture books.
If a child sees English coming from many different sources, that child will believe that English is a real language spoken by real people. That child will no longer suspect that English is a list of nonsense syllables created by the textbook publishers for the malicious pleasure of torturing them.
There are also plenty of potential resourses right here in the child's own culture. If you use these resources, the children will understand that there are men, women, doors, and windows in Korea, even though they are not usually called men, women, doors, and windows.
�Ͳ� is a Korean folk song which is readily adaptable for a lesson on adjectives or antonyms. The kids already know the song. Just translate it into English, and the children will understand.
������ is a picture book which you could almost translate just by looking at the pictures. "Light chipmunk, heavy panda . . . Fierce lion, gentle zebra."
I would offer help with the most easily adaptable school subjects.
Math class uses very few words, so it is easily understandable in a second language. Likewise for music class. I might even be able to offer private music instruction in English.
I would start a parents' group.
I would remind the parents that we only see their kids for 5 hours a week, and that is hardly what one could consider an immersion. The best way to help is to use English as much as possible at home.
Change all the "�̸� ��"s into "come here"s.
Change all the "������"s into "stop it"s.
The parents would come to the meeting armed with excuses, like "My English isn't good enough. "I don't have enough time." "No one will be there to correct mistakes." I would likewise come to the meeting armed with comebacks.
Beaver, I agree: the teachers who study Korean are the most desirable teachers.
See my new topic on "Why should a foreign teacher study Korean?" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mankind
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 6:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Would get 100's of Mormons to come and teach for free and drive all the other hogwans out of business, and send all you bastards back home. Then when my market domination was complete, I'd secretly start charging 10,000 a month and make millions of dollars with my ever growing army of Mormons and my 10,000,000 students. hahahaha.
HAND:) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
prairieboy
Joined: 14 Sep 2003
Location: The batcave.
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 6:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
My last hagwon must be raking in close to 20 million a month after ALL expenses have been paid. I feel this is more money than most people will make in a year.
If you are making this much money and you've got a good crew then why not share the good fortune? Oh, wait a minute...this is Korea, and the Wangjang doesn't do that because he saves his generosity for holidays when he can give the teachers a 50,000 won bonus or a 25,000 won tuna gift set while he tries to think of ways to get more money/work out of all of his teachers.
I hate this payday stuff 3 days to a week or more after you've worked your hours for the month. The excuse is they don't have all of the money yet. Utter nonsense for those hagwons that are litterally thriving because they raked in a profit from the previous months as per my example above. Is it too difficult to set up an account process by which the owner, after a few months of turning a real profit (bills are paid and there are no other expenses), has two or three months of wages put aside to pay at the end of each teaching session.
I hate this pay once a month. I would pay my teachers half of their monthly pay at the end of the second week, so they wouldn't have to ask for advances, so they could send money home at times that are more convenient, so they'd have money to do things during their time off.
The whole business structure of the korean hagwon is completely backward to that of what I have experienced before.
These are real things that I could change if I were to OWN a hagwon that was turning a real profit. You've got to take care of your employees because they are your greatest asset. The customer is number one, but if your teachers are sick, tired and unhappy, you can't motivate them by threatening to fire them. You can't give them negative comments all the time. You have to build a team with common interests and make them feel they are part of the process of making the business successful.
Well, I guess some of what I'd change. Sort of turned into a rant.  Sorry. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Homer
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 12:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
prairieboy,
You are in teaching my man...if you want bonuses based on profitability you should consider a career change... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
