Korean Job Discussion Forums

[garykasparov]

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2008/06/161_26685.html

[Justin Kimberlake]

Since when did they start letting people with Downs' Syndrome write Op-Ed pieces in the Herald?

[Ya-ta Boy]

Ol' Helen would fit right in here at Dave's. She has the whine down just fine.

[IMF crisis]

[PaperTiger]

I think maybe the title of this thread is a little misleading. It's nice to see someone come to our defense, but since English teachers are (for the most part) the only people who could actually read that article (most adults here cannot)...I'm sure the impact will be less than insignificant.

You gotta wonder about a country that spends as much as Korea does on learning English, and gets such piss-poor results. God help them if they turn their keen investigative eye on the rest of Korean education...I think the English issue is just a symptom of a larger problem.

[Ya-ta Boy]

Don't sell me short. I've been putting up anti-whine posts for a lot longer than 78 weeks. It's even longer than 7.8 years.

And yes, it was whiney. They don't even have a Korean-English dictionary for me. And what was that nonsense about changing the laws giving principals too much power? "I don't like the way you run your schools. Change the public school laws."

It never ceases to amaze me that you can take a fresh graduate who's never had a job in education before and probably doesn't even have an ed degree, but give 'em a job in a hakwon or other school and within two weeks they suddenly become an expert on how to run a school. Before you say it, I'm well aware of the short-comings of the education system here.

[IMF crisis]

[aarontendo]

[Pooty]

You guys just don't get it, do you?

The majority of Koreans have never wanted to learn English! It's all a game, a show; pass the test - get a job. Actually learning the language and making a show of it are two very different things.

The 2% that actually take an interest in the language get the most out of it. The rest of the population have better things to do, and will NEVER want to learn it. That's the way it is, you can bitch and moan all you want, but things in this xenophobic country will never change.

[diver]

[pkang0202]

I disagree with Pooty. The majority of Koreans want to learn English. However, they want a fast track path to learning it. They want to master it in months.

[some waygug-in]

Well yes and no. A lot of Koreans (at least those I've taught) want to learn English.....until they realize that there will be a lot of work and effort involved. Some never quite realize this and they go the route of blaming the teacher/school/system.

Some realize it, but are not willing to put in the time and energy. They are the ones who attend classes for 10+ years, but still can't make a sentence.

Some just want to get a High test score and are not really interested in learning the language.

Some are willing, but they are mis-directed by bad methodologies/textbooks/teachers etc.

Some expect too much, too fast and wouldn't be so dissappointed if their expectations were more reasonable.

Many feel they know a lot more than they actually can produce in a conversation, and this causes a lot of stress for teachers. Mainly because teachers want students who have learned enough basics before they study advanced vocabulary and structure.

Some come to class for other reasons.... to meet members of the opposite sex or to give them something to do as a hobby.


When talking about parents...

Many want their childrean to learn English, but only because they want their kids to be wealthy providers when parents reach retirement age.

Some just want their kids to be kept busy, off the street and out of the PC bangs, if they learn a bit of English...it's just icing on the cake.

[Unposter]

Ya-ta Boy is onto something about Helen's letter to the editor. All she does is whine about her co-teachers and her principle but she offers little in how to change things other than if they put the energy into the Beef protests into English education maybe things would change which is a back handed insult (even if it were true).

I have little doubt that Koreans are ambivalent about English education. They really do believe they need the skills but few know how to go about achieving them and even fewer are willing to do it.

Alot of the blame lies on the Ministry of Education and the Public Schools themselves. Until very recently, all that was taught in the public schools was grammar and vocabulary as was needed for the College Enterance Exam. If you wanted to learn to speak English, you had to goto a Hakwon. Some Koreans did want to learn and they did go and many did see some benefit. Between these people rising to the top and the marketing ploys of Hawkwons, more and more Koreans started to learn English conversation.

Then, during the Roh Moohyun Administration, Gyeonggi-do and then Seoul started to bring in Native speakers into the elementary schools to teach English Conversation. Did they do this simply to break the backs of the hakwons or was there a more idealistic desire for better education is anyone's guess.

I am sure few Public School teachers wanted to compete with and/or baby sit wit FTs. I wonder how many would be nice if it were not their job to do so?

And, there is little incentive for Principles to care unless they are getting cash from the government or if you are making money for them through after school programs and camps. This should not be a shock to anyone.

Korea is a hyper-competitive society and no one really wants to see someone else get ahead of them. Koreans know that education is the means to success but few really care about education - they care about getting ahead. That is the Korean social reality. Most logical conclusions are reached from this premise - how do I get ahead? - how do I win the rat race?

Because of this, many FTs don't understand the Korean education system. We have a sense of equality before education even though after we graduate we are expected to compete for jobs and climb the corporate ladder and store enough to survive job loss and retirement. Korea has fewer of these idealistic illusions about equality before education. It is all about getting the teacher to like me, influence my grade as best I can, go to the right schools, meet the right people, accquire power and prestige which can be used as power.

Korean innocence ends by middle school if not earlier. They are told that their is this game. You win by getting the highest score on a test. You get the highest score and you can have anything you want. If you get a lower score you have to do whatever the person with the higher score tells you to do.

Sure you can go out and protest. Maybe a water cannon will take out your eye. But at the end of the day, you are stuck in your position in society as meted by the college enterance exam.

At least the exam creates a certain kind of equality. This is what Confuscious wanted. Anyone can study hard and get the high score. Of course, the rich hire the best tutors to give the best advantages to their children. But, at the end of the day, the test is neutral and knowing the answers decides social status.

Now, I do believe that as democracy takes a greater hold on Korean society, some of these concepts wil change. Many already have. Generational change can be powerful.

And, I think FTs complaining about the educational system will help. But, if you want to be most effective in helping Koreans with reform, eudcate yourself on the issues. Who knows? You may just yet be a force for good in Korean society.

[Adventurer]

I didn't see an article blaming us foreign teachers for the lack of English skills among the Korean populace. If a Korean person wrote such a piece, then that person lacks common sense. I agree with most of what Helen wrote. However, we are not up in arms of problems regarding the crisis in education in North America and England. In the end, the majority of teachers of English are Korean, and so it is fair to point out that people should take a closer look at the Koreans who teach English since we are only a small percentage of the teachers here. I have no clue how many Koreans teach English at public schools. Let us suppose, there are 200,000. Our legal teachers only amount to 18,000 or so. We can't really discuss the 32,000 illegals. Even if we included the illegals, we are still no more than 1/4 teachers of English. One of my friends who taught in a public school in the US and is teaching at a Korean public school and is in his 40s has made similar criticisms. His co-teachers does very little. There is little accountability.

[diver]