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JustJohn
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Location: Your computer screen
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 Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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He looks fired up. I certainly don't agree with him about everything, but I'd rather give him a shot than the other two.
I think he's got more potential to fix things than the other two, and the things he would be more likely to F up are the more easily reversible ones. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Bob Barr's turning out to be more interesting than I thought he was. I just found out yesterday for example that he graduated from high school in Iran back in the 60s. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| It'll be interesting to see whether a high-profile Libertarian candidate bleeds more support from the Democrats or from the Republicans. Most people would probably assume the Republicans would lose more support to such a candidate, but then the Dems almost certainly have voters who are liberal on social issues and classical liberal on economics as well. |
I've considered this some more. I believe Bob Barr will sap more Republicans than Democrats. Why? The answer lies in Plouffe's presentation (2:20 in). 61% of Democrats are enthusiastic about this election, compared to only 35% of the Republicans. You can see the enthusiasm gap by candidate here. I'd like to post the image, but Dave's recently shut down such capabilities. You can imagine that when 2/3ds of Republicans are not enthusiastic about their candidate, while 3/5ths of Democrats are, that Republicans are going to be the ones drifting to Bob Barr. |
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Milwaukiedave
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Location: Goseong
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| Bob Barr's turning out to be more interesting than I thought he was. I just found out yesterday for example that he graduated from high school in Iran back in the 60s. |
Mithridates,
I almost took your comment as a joke, until I looked it up myself. That is a total shocker.
Here is the Wikipedia citation for it:
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Early life
Barr was born on November 5, 1948, in Iowa City, Iowa[7] to Bob and Beatrice Barr.[1] His father, an army officer who graduated from West Point,[1][11] moved the family to various locations around the world while pursing his career in civil engineering.[1][12] The second of six children, Bob Jr. spent his boyhood in Malaysia, Pakistan, Panama, Peru, and finally Tehran, Iran where he graduated from Community High School in 1966.[1][7][12] |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| Milwaukiedave wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
| Bob Barr's turning out to be more interesting than I thought he was. I just found out yesterday for example that he graduated from high school in Iran back in the 60s. |
Mithridates,
I almost took your comment as a joke, until I looked it up myself. That is a total shocker.
Here is the Wikipedia citation for it:
| Quote: |
Early life
Barr was born on November 5, 1948, in Iowa City, Iowa[7] to Bob and Beatrice Barr.[1] His father, an army officer who graduated from West Point,[1][11] moved the family to various locations around the world while pursing his career in civil engineering.[1][12] The second of six children, Bob Jr. spent his boyhood in Malaysia, Pakistan, Panama, Peru, and finally Tehran, Iran where he graduated from Community High School in 1966.[1][7][12] |
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Yep. And here's the exact part of the video where he says it:
Bob Barr gives off a first impression of a white dude that has never been out of Georgia, so I was as surprised as you when he said that. I wrote it out:
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| I've lived, I've actually lived in both Iraq and Iran when I was growing up. I have at least a passing familiarity with both countries and with that part of the world. The current leader of Iran, the current president Ahmadinejad, is not the real decision-maker in Iran, and treating him as such really is mistaken. We ought to be dealing directly with the religious and the parliamentary leaders in Iran; those are the ones making the decisions. We ought to be working also through surrogates, those countries that are allies of ours that maintain a strong and robust economic and political relationship with Iran to find ways that they can work with us, and we with them, to start once again get(ting) back to the strong commonality of interests that we and Iran have had over the years. There's no reason that that cannot provide the basis for a positive, continuing dialogue to reduce tensions in that country. |
Just like in the other thread I wish we had some interesting candidates in Canada. A guy that grew up in Indonesia, Hawaii, spent some time in Pakistan etc., another guy that went to high school in Iran, Malaysia, etc., and even McCain spent five years as a POW in Vietnam. We've got a guy that studied economics, someone that got his degree in France (his first language is French though so no big deal), a labour leader and a someone that I think is the son of an unknown actor. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Barr was born on November 5, 1948, in Iowa City, Iowa |
Well, I'm officially embarrassed.  |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:11 am Post subject: |
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July 10, 2008
Barr at 10% in New Hampshire
In the latest Zogby Poll:
Obama - 40%
McCain - 37%
Barr - 10%
Nader - 2%
Someone else - 7%
Undecided - 4%
McCain, Obama nearly even with Independents. In a tight race, 9% stay with Barr and help Obama win the state |
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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Bob Barr ended up on the WSJ Opinion Page. Here is what he wrote:
Judges Are No Reason to Vote for McCain
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By BOB BARR
July 17, 2008; Page A15
The judiciary is becoming an important election issue. John McCain is warning conservatives that control of today's finely balanced Supreme Court depends on his election. Unfortunately, his jurisprudence is likely to be anything but conservative.
The idea of a "living Constitution" long has been popular on the political left. Conservatives routinely dismiss such result-oriented justice, denouncing "judicial activism" and proclaiming their fidelity to "original intent." However, many Republicans, like Mr. McCain, are just as result-oriented as their Democratic opponents. They only disagree over the result desired.
Judge-made rights are wrong because there is no constitutional warrant behind them. The Constitution leaves most decisions up to the normal political process.
However, the Constitution sometimes requires decisions or action by judges � "judicial activism," if you will � to ensure the country's fundamental law is followed. Thus, for example, if government improperly restricts free speech � think the McCain-Feingold law's ban on issue ads � the courts have an obligation to void the law. The same goes for efforts by government to ban firearms ownership, as the Court ruled this term in striking down the District of Columbia gun ban.
Yet even as Republicans support and defend the Second Amendment, they ignore the Constitution when it says that only Congress can suspend habeas corpus, and then only in event of an invasion or rebellion. And if a president says we are "at war," Republicans believe he can ignore laws passed by Congress.
Mr. McCain is a convenient convert to the cause of sound judicial appointments. He has never paid much attention to judicial philosophy, backing both Clinton Supreme Court nominees � Stephen Breyer and Ruth Bader Ginsburg. He also participated in the so-called "Gang of 14," which favored centrist over conservative nominees as part of a compromise between President George W. Bush and Senate Democrats.
What's more, Republican Court appointments have often turned liberal. Earl Warren, William Brennan and Harry Blackmun were GOP appointees to the high court. So are "liberals" John Paul Stevens and David Souter, as well as centrists Anthony Kennedy and former Justice Sandra Day O'Connor. There is no reason to believe that a President McCain, once freed from the need to seek conservative support, would support more philosophically sound candidates. Even if he did, he would not likely prevail against a Democratic Senate majority.
Nor is it obvious that Barack Obama would attempt to pack the court with left-wing ideologues. He shocked some of his supporters by endorsing the ruling that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to own firearms, and criticizing the recent decision overturning the death penalty for a child rapist. With the three members most likely to leave the Supreme Court in the near future occupying the more liberal side of the bench, the next appointments probably won't much change the Court's balance.
But even if a President McCain were to influence the court, it would not likely be in a genuinely conservative direction. His jurisprudence is not conservative.
For instance, most conservatives believe that the First Amendment safeguards political speech. Mr. McCain does not. Indeed, it is the liberal bloc which upheld McCain-Feingold's restrictions on ads criticizing incumbent politicians, while the conservative members, led by Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Samuel Alito, forged a more recent majority overturning parts of McCain-Feingold.
In his May 2008 speech on judges at Wake Forest University, Mr. McCain talked about the importance of "the constitutional restraint on power," but in practice he recognizes no limits on government or executive-branch authority. In fact, if Mr. McCain nominated someone in his own image, the appointee would disagree with not only the doctrine of enumerated powers, which limits the federal government to only those tasks explicitly authorized by the Constitution, but also the Constitution's system of checks and balances, and even its explicit grant of the law-making power to Congress.
Mr. McCain has endorsed, in action if not rhetoric, the theory of the "unitary executive," which leaves the president unconstrained by Congress or the courts. Republicans like Mr. McCain believe the president as commander in chief of the military can do almost anything, including deny Americans arrested in America protection of the Constitution and access to the courts.
It is important to choose judicial nominees carefully. But that is no reason for conservatives to vote for Mr. McCain. He has demonstrated no more interest in "conserving" the Constitution, and its principles of limited government and individual liberty, than has Mr. Obama.
The best way to get better judges is to expand candidate choice beyond the Republicans and Democrats. Supporting the political status quo guarantees more jurisprudence based on political convenience, not constitutional principle.
Mr. Barr is the Libertarian Party's candidate for president.
See all of today's editorials and op-eds, plus video commentary, on Opinion Journal.
And add your comments to the Opinion Journal forum.
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One almost wonders why John Feingold McCain is running as a conservative Republican? McCain's saying he won't raise taxes yet he cheers on the Sierra Club and has plans for a cap and trade scheme. Such a law will lead the largest transfer of wealth since the 16th amendment. He has also been cheering on Bernanke's rate cuts which has weakened the dollar and inflated the prices of basic staples such as corn, wheat and gasoline. So much for sound currency, I suppose. (easy money and unsound currency mean tax hikes through inflation.)
While he gave a good speech to the NAACP on education yesterday, we can't forget that the current president gave us the 'No Child Left Behind Act' -- a populist measure if there ever was one. He expanded the DoEd, too.
What has Bob Barr said about the Fed and sound currency, I haven't seen anything? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| Pluto wrote: |
| What has Bob Barr said about the Fed and sound currency, I haven't seen anything? |
I don't think he really has a sophisticated grasp of some libertarian positions, including the positions against the Fed. He hasn't mentioned it thus far. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Pluto wrote: |
| What has Bob Barr said about the Fed and sound currency, I haven't seen anything? |
I don't think he really has a sophisticated grasp of some libertarian positions, including the positions against the Fed. He hasn't mentioned it thus far. |
Barr also made common cause with Xtian fundamentalists to try to ban Wiccan religous practices in the army. Not a violation of liberartarian principles per se, unless you factor in that they weren't demanding an end to Christian practices. So it basically amounted to the use of state power to privilege some religious groups over others. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| Pluto wrote: |
| What has Bob Barr said about the Fed and sound currency, I haven't seen anything? |
I don't think he really has a sophisticated grasp of some libertarian positions, including the positions against the Fed. He hasn't mentioned it thus far. |
Barr also made common cause with Xtian fundamentalists to try to ban Wiccan religous practices in the army. Not a violation of liberartarian principles per se, unless you factor in that they weren't demanding an end to Christian practices. So it basically amounted to the use of state power to privilege some religious groups over others. |
I consider that a violation of liberty. 100%. |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:02 am Post subject: |
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Why has it become so impossible for a politician to change their minds about a subject? I know nothing about Barr, but he may have simply changed his mind based on experiences and education he's had more recently than his previous standing in the Republican party.
Most of the great ones of American politics were "flip floppers." The Roosevelts, John Adams, Lincoln, etc. Changing your mind should be allowed in a political context or we're doomed to have only idealogical stuffed shirts running the show.
Last edited by Czarjorge on Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| On the other hand wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| Pluto wrote: |
| What has Bob Barr said about the Fed and sound currency, I haven't seen anything? |
I don't think he really has a sophisticated grasp of some libertarian positions, including the positions against the Fed. He hasn't mentioned it thus far. |
Barr also made common cause with Xtian fundamentalists to try to ban Wiccan religous practices in the army. Not a violation of liberartarian principles per se, unless you factor in that they weren't demanding an end to Christian practices. So it basically amounted to the use of state power to privilege some religious groups over others. |
I consider that a violation of liberty. 100%. |
Yeah, me too. I guess what I was getting at was that it wouldn't be a violation of liberty is all religious groups were denied state support for their practices while in the military, and were just left to fend for themselves. If that were the case, then denying it to Wiccans would just be treating them the same way as everybody else. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:02 am Post subject: |
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Bob Barr at 8% in Colorado:
July 21, 2008 - 4:12pmNew poll shows Obama, McCain neck-and-neck;
Barr polls 8 percent
By Jeremy Pelzer
The latest Zogby poll shows presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama leading presumptive Republican opponent John McCain by only two percentage points in Colorado.
But the poll's real surprise was that Libertarian presidential nominee, former GOP U.S. Rep. Bob Barr, polled 8 percent. Previous presidential polls in Colorado haven't included Barr's name as an option.
The poll, conducted online among 780 likely Colorado voters between June 11 and June 30, has a +/- 3.6 percent margin of error. |
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