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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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 Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:42 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
The point I made in an earlier discussion was about the bizarreness of AIDS being a heterosexual disease in Africa, and a gay and needle-sharing disease everywhere else. |
That's why I had to point out to you, and I'll do it again, it's a blood disease in Africa and North America and everywhere. You're creating a false dichotomy. Heterosexuals in Africa don't have anal sex, use iv drugs more, and are subject to more dangerous hospital conditions. Unless you think those European nurses really did inject babies with AIDS, again let me point out here's a great example of how HIV is transmitted in Africa hospitals due to poor sanitary conditions. |
Heterosexuals in Africa have penile-vaginal sex which transmits the illness from men to women.
Are you back to your marauding bands of violent AIDS patients in Africa theory again? |
Are you back to this strawman again? Odd you never commented in the last thread on the evidence I presented in support that HIV is spread in Africa by many more vectors than gay and p/v sex. Sorry, you're committing the fallacy of the false dichotomy.
http://www.plusnews.org/InDepthMain.aspx?InDepthId=67&ReportId=75624&Country=Yes |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Bump. Cornfed, still waiting for peer reviewed scientific papers that cast doubt on Gallo's findings. |
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bovinerebel
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:37 am Post subject: |
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As always mindmetoo is wrong. Mises....thanks for this thread. You truly displayed him for the misinformed hack he is. Anyone trying ti support the ridiculous (in the strongest sense....i mean absrud....totally bizare!) statistics passed for as "real aids' stats has just never been to africa and seen for himself that it's clearly bolocks.
Aoart from the official stats I can easily demonstrate to prove that aids stats are blatant bad science and/or lies , I have been to government hosptals in south africa. There are empty beds everywhere. I have lived in africa all my life and have never know a person who has died of aids. I also don't have a friend who has known someone who has died of Aids. I know one guy who died of Tb though. I also know a lady who ran a clinic in a poor area of 12 000 people. Given that your sillt stats in geneva would have 1 in 4 of these people with aids it was interesting to note her report that absolutely zero people had ever tested hiv postive , or applied for the free anti retorviral drugs. Frankly unless you live in africa , or have travelled there and can think critically , you should not have an opinion. this hiv thing....it's the most absurd lie in modern history. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| bovinerebel wrote: |
| As always mindmetoo is wrong. Mises....thanks for this thread. You truly displayed him for the misinformed hack he is. |
I think mm2 was more focused on the hiv does not cause AIDS angle. I'm quite sure that there is a very strong link between HIV and a weakened immune system. My position is that absolute poverty causes the same symptoms as AIDS and that we are significantly overestimating the number of cases in Africa. I see no nefarious cause behind the over estimation but rather simple group-think and flawed modeling. |
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Bryan
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:56 am Post subject: |
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I recommend "The Heterosexual Aids Myth." It's a book by an epidemiologist who compared all of the early statistics (1980s-1990s) to understand the actual risk of contracting HIV/AIDS in the US through heterosexual sex.
There were always a lot of problems with reporting. Some states that seemed to have a high number of heterosexual cases would simply report whatever the infected person said they obtained it from (Oh, I got it from a prostitute, I'm not gay). Then if you look at their medical records you find past cases of anal gonorrhea.
New York used to never immediately put a person down as having received HIV through heterosexual sex--they would be met with several follow up interviews. Most people would drop the claim that they received it through straight sex eventually, and admit to gay sex or sharing needles.
It helped me understand what is really going on, and why I will never donate a dollar to HIV research since it gets a lot already. I would rather put that same money toward cancer and longevity research. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| Bryan wrote: |
| I recommend "The Heterosexual Aids Myth." It's a book by an epidemiologist who compared all of the early statistics (1980s-1990s) to understand the actual risk of contracting HIV/AIDS in the US through heterosexual sex. |
Yeah, it is an interesting book. There was a great amount of politicization of the issue. As I said previously in this thread, I totally understand why as anti-gay types hardly needed cannon fodder. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Seems the truth is slowing seeping out.
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A myth that kills
The U. S. Senate is near to passing a massive $50-billion Emergency Plan for HIV/ AIDS Relief--a bill whose priorities are based on myth, just like virtually all anti-AIDS efforts worldwide.
The world's top AIDS bureaucrat recently admitted the truth: "It is very unlikely that there will be a heterosexual epidemic" outside Africa, Kevin de Cock, director of the World Health Organization, told London's Independent newspaper. His bosses at the United Nations issued an official denial--but couldn't truly challenge his science.
The effort to "democratize" AIDS dates back to the mid-1980s, when the media and health officials began a desperate and concerted effort to divert attention and make it seem everyone was at risk. The 1985 Life magazine cover, blaring "Now No One Is Safe From AIDS" in huge red letters, represents this effort. Surgeon general Everett Koop coined the term "heterosexual AIDS explosion" in 1987, while, in 1993, health and human services secretary Donna Shalala told Congress that AIDS may leave "nobody left."
Even today, the Centers for Disease Control's HIV/AIDS Web site refuses to acknowledge any difference in the risks of AIDS between anal, vaginal or oral sex.
Peter Piot, now executive director of UNAIDS, warned as late as 1997 that "HIV will cut through Asian populations like a hot knife through cold butter." UNAIDS's 2001 estimate had 30 million infected adults in sub-Saharan Africa.
Last year, the UN had to cut that Africa figure by almost half -- and drop its Asia number by 38% from just the year before. Dr. James Chin, a former top AIDS epidemiologist at the World Health Organization, has long declared the UN figures to be too high and insists they still are.
In fact, there was never any indication AIDS had or would "break out" from the well-defined risk-behaviour groups, as I was writing as far back as 1987 and in my 1990 book The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS.
I'm no Nostradamus. I merely analyzed public data and studies showing how terribly difficult the disease is to transmit vaginally or orally. But the myths are still the basis for AIDS policy.
The group Fair Allocations in Research compiles statistics on federal spending to fight various diseases, compared to how many Americans each disease kills. Measured that way, Americans spend 21 times as much on AIDS as cancer -- and 78 times what Americans spend on coronary artery disease.
Plus, the Ryan White Act mandates U. S. taxpayer handouts to HIV/AIDS victims of about $1.2-billion a year. We have no remotely similar program for victims of any other disease.
The same official grotesque distortion holds internationally. Chin charges that the United Nations puts HIV/AIDS victims on a pedestal while other disease victims stay submerged in deadly muck.
Robert England, who heads the charity Health Systems Workshop, recently made the same point in the British Medical Journal: "Although HIV causes 3.7% of [worldwide] mortality, it receives 25% of international health care aid."
"In the fight against AIDS, profiteering has trumped prevention," declared Sam L. Ruteikara, co-chair of Uganda's National AIDS-Prevention Committee, in a recent Washington Post column. "AIDS is no longer simply a disease; it has become a multibillion-dollar industry."
Consider:A 2008 WHO/UNAIDS/ UNICEF report demands AIDS drugs for every victim worldwide, requiring spending hikes from $8.1-billion now to $35-billion by 2010. Yet AIDS remains incurable. Conversely, an African with non-resistant tuberculosis is curable with merely $25 of drugs.
"Easily preventable diseases are still killing millions of children each year, while billions of dollars are being squandered annually by AIDS programs," says Chin. (Yes, the U. S. Senate bill funds anti-TB and -malaria programs -- but not to anywhere near the degree of its anti-AIDS spending.)
The skewed priorities even hurt AIDS efforts. "UNAIDS' perpetuation of the myth that everyone is at risk of AIDS has led to billions wasted on prevention programs," Chin insists. "Insufficient outreach programs for those in the highest-risk population have clearly led to infections that could have been prevented."
Ruteikara says, "the proportion of Ugandans infected with HIV plunged from 21% in 1991 to 6% in 2002. But international AIDS experts who came to Uganda said we were wrong to try to limit people's sexual freedom. Worse, they had the financial power to force their casual-sex agendas upon us." And now, "as fidelity and abstinence have been subverted, Uganda's HIV rates have begun to tick back up."
There is no precedent in history for such myth-driven "democratization" of a disease, nor for the abominable unfairness in allocating funds away from so many curable illnesses. Says England: "We have created a monster with too many vested interests and reputations at stake." - |
http://www.nationalpost.com/todays_paper/story.html?id=636667 |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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Let My People Go, AIDS Profiteers
By Sam L. Ruteikara
Monday, June 30, 2008; A11
KAMPALA, Uganda -- The President's Emergency Plan for HIV-AIDS Relief (PEPFAR) has been mired in the Senate for months. Last week finally brought signs that a vote, and passage, could be near. The program would cost $50 billion -- that's $165 from each American to fight AIDS, or $1.3 billion from New York City alone. But will the money allocated for AIDS stop the spread of the virus in sub-Saharan Africa, where 76 percent of the world's HIV-AIDS deaths occurred last year?
Not if the dark dealings I've witnessed in Africa continue unchecked. In the fight against AIDS, profiteering has trumped prevention. AIDS is no longer simply a disease; it has become a multibillion-dollar industry.
In the late 1980s, before international experts arrived to tell us we had it all "wrong," we in Uganda devised a practical campaign to prevent the spread of HIV. We recognized that population-wide AIDS epidemics in Africa were driven by people having sex with more than one regular partner. Therefore, we urged people to be faithful. Our campaign was called ABC (Abstain, or Be Faithful, or use Condoms), but our main message was: Stick to one partner. We promoted condoms only as a last resort.
Because we knew what to do in our country, we succeeded. The proportion of Ugandans infected with HIV plunged from 21 percent in 1991 to 6 percent in 2002. But international AIDS experts who came to Uganda said we were wrong to try to limit people's sexual freedom. Worse, they had the financial power to force their casual-sex agendas upon us.
PEPFAR calls for Western experts to work as equal partners with African leaders on AIDS prevention. But as co-chair of Uganda's National AIDS-Prevention Committee, I have seen this process sabotaged. Repeatedly, our 25-member prevention committee put faithfulness and abstinence into the National Strategic Plan that guides how PEPFAR money for our country will be spent. Repeatedly, foreign advisers erased our recommendations. When the document draft was published, fidelity and abstinence were missing.
And somehow, a suspicious statistic attacking marriage appeared. The plan states that the HIV infection rate among married couples is 42 percent, twice as high as the rate among prostitutes. Our requests for the source of this statistic were repeatedly ignored. In fact, the 2004-05 Ugandan HIV/AIDS Sero-Behavioral Survey found that HIV prevalence among married couples is only 6.3 percent, far lower than infection rates among widowed (31.4 percent) or divorced (13.9 percent) Ugandans.
When Washington insiders were alerted to these scandals, the words "abstain" and "be faithful" were quietly reinserted into the plan -- on paper. But that doesn't guarantee these methods will be implemented or promoted. Meanwhile, the dubious marriage statistic remains.
As fidelity and abstinence have been subverted, Uganda's HIV rates have begun to tick back up.
Western media have been told this renewed surge of HIV infection is because there are "not enough condoms in Uganda," even though we have many more condoms now than we did in the early 1990s, when our HIV rates began to decline. Condom promotions have failed in Africa, mostly because fewer than 5 percent of people use condoms consistently with regular partners. Indeed, the loudest HIV-prevention message in Africa is "universal access" to condoms, testing, anti-retroviral treatment, and assorted other drugs and devices. All these commodities must be transported, stored, distributed, advertised and resupplied endlessly.
Meanwhile, effective HIV prevention methods, such as urging Africans to stick to one partner, don't qualify for lucrative universal-access status.
Do not misunderstand me: Treatment is good. But for every African who gains access to HIV treatment, six become newly infected. To treat one AIDS patient with life-prolonging anti-retroviral drugs costs more than $1,000 a year. Our successful ABC campaign cost just 29 cents per person each year.
International suppliers make broad, oversimplified statements such as "You can't change Africans' sexual behavior." While it's true that you can't change everybody, you don't have to. If the share of men having three or more sexual partners in a year drops from 15 percent to 3 percent, as happened in Uganda between 1989 and 1995, HIV infection rates will plunge. It is that simple.
We, the poor of Africa, remain silenced in the global dialogue. Our wisdom about our own culture is ignored.
Telling men and women to keep sex sacred -- to save sex for marriage and then remain faithful -- is telling them to love one another deeply with their whole hearts. Most HIV infections in Africa are spread by sex outside of marriage: casual sex and infidelity. The solution is faithful love.
So hear my plea, HIV-AIDS profiteers. Let my people go. We understand that casual sex is dear to you, but staying alive is dear to us. Listen to African wisdom, and we will show you how to prevent AIDS.
The Rev. Sam L. Ruteikara is co-chair of Uganda's National AIDS-Prevention Committee. |
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/29/AR2008062901477_pf.html
Interesting perspective. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:49 am Post subject: |
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| Cornfed wrote: |
| Do you have any reference to a paper which really does demonstrate "HIV" being isolated and shown to be infectious. It shouldn't be hard to find one if one exists. The leader of the lab would surely have won a Nobel Prize. |
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081006/wl_nm/us_nobel_medicine_1
Cornfed your goal post has been reached. Do you agree now that HIV has been isolated? |
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gangpae
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| I stopped believing the AIDS bullshite about 10 years ago. I think AIDS is more about gay men having a self-loathing death wish because of the homophobic society we live in. People who chronically abuse drugs, alcohol, tobacco, etc. are bound to suffer some sort of breakdown in their immune system. I have the same skepticism, nay incredulity about AIDS in Africa. I blame Africa's unusually high mortality rate on poverty and malaria. But the AIDS hypochondriacs are withering in their onslaught and I cringe waiting for mindmetoo's response. Just recently thousands of ESL teachers, many with very sketchy sexual behavior, were tested for HIV. How many tested positive? I'm guessing 0% or we would have heard something. Why isn't this result used for projecting the prevalence of HIV? Because the fear mongers pick and choose their studies to make projections about HIV. People have indeed died from the AIDS myth; it's a lethal bogey man skulking around the world. There is no vaccine because there is no disease. Best way to avoid becoming an AIDS statistic: 1. Don't get malaria, 2. Don't abuse drugs, alcohol or tobacco. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| gangpae wrote: |
| I think AIDS is more about gay men having a self-loathing death wish because of the homophobic society we live in. |
I guess it doesn't matter what you think.
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| People who chronically abuse drugs, alcohol, tobacco, etc. are bound to suffer some sort of breakdown in their immune system. |
Your opinion as a medical doctor?
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| Just recently thousands of ESL teachers, many with very sketchy sexual behavior, were tested for HIV. How many tested positive? I'm guessing 0% or we would have heard something. |
Fallacy: argument for ignorance. What is the prevalence of HIV among white university graduates? How many were tested?
HIV prevalence and risk factors in university students.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7718191
You don't find many straight university students getting HIV.
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| There is no vaccine because there is no disease. |
There's no vaccine because when you have a retrovirus that attacks your immune system it's very difficult to come up with a vaccine. I'd be happy to point you to the science on this.
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| Best way to avoid becoming an AIDS statistic: 1. Don't get malaria, 2. Don't abuse drugs, alcohol or tobacco. |
In your opinion as an epidemiologist? |
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gangpae
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| Are you a 'certified' epidemiologist? Or just a whiny cause populaire? I think, unfortunately for the world, the latter. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| gangpae wrote: |
| Are you a 'certified' epidemiologist? Or just a whiny cause populaire? I think, unfortunately for the world, the latter. |
You've made some claims. Just curious if you can back them up with evidence. It would appear you can't.
For example you doubted the "official HIV" story because you heard no report about HIV among tested ESL teachers.
According to the CDC there are about 157,000 white people (35% of the total population of HIV infected) in the USA living with HIV. That's .05% of the population. The odds of finding one ESL teacher with HIV means they would have to test 2,000. Do you know how many ESL teachers have been tested?
http://www.avert.org/statsum.htm
And then consider the age range. Let's say the bulk of ESL teachers are in the 25-34 year old range. They make up about 25% of people with HIV. So white people in the 25-34 age range actually make up 39,250 of that total population. So 40,000 ESL teacher age range and ESL teacher race out of 300,000,000 Americans gives us a .01% HIV infection rate among young, white North American teachers. So they have to test about 7,500 teachers for HIV before they likely get one.
http://www.avert.org/usastata.htm |
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gangpae
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| So by any calculation it's extremely difficult to get HIV. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| gangpae wrote: |
| So by any calculation it's extremely difficult to get HIV. |
No. You're mixing up terms. "Difficult" and "probability" are not the same.
If you shot yourself up with a needle full of HIV infected blood it would not be difficult to get AIDS.
We're talking about the probability of encountering an HIV positive person and the probability of your activity exposing you to sufficient fluids to put you at risk of an infection. In North America, especially in our demographic, the probability is low. In Africa, it's higher.
Not many ESL teachers come down with leprosy. Does that mean it doesn't exist? |
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