|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| The War onDrugs? |
| Illicit drugs are harmful and we must continue to prosucute this war for the greater good. |
|
23% |
[ 9 ] |
| Illicit Drugs are harmful to the health of every individual so we must prevent them from using them for their own good. |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
| End it; enough lives have been lost in this futile exercise, though I don't condone drug use myself. |
|
38% |
[ 15 ] |
| Dude, I've got the munchies!!! |
|
38% |
[ 15 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 39 |
|
| Author |
Message |
Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
|
 Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:58 pm Post subject: This Stupid (Drug) War |
 |
|
The U.S. Role in a Mexico Assassination
| Quote: |
Stories of campus drug use in the U.S. are so common that last week's arrest of 75 alleged dealers at San Diego State University was shocking chiefly due to the number netted. The occasional big bust aside, the long running drug war has become almost background noise. At least in this country.
American nonchalance about drug use stands in sharp contrast to what is happening across the border in Mexico. There lawmen are taking heavy casualties in a showdown with drug-running crime syndicates. On Thursday the chief of the Mexican federal police, Edgar Mill�n G�mez, was assassinated by men waiting for him when he came home, becoming the latest and most prominent victim of the syndicates. |
....
| Quote: |
| The upshot: Americans underwrite Mexico's vicious organized crime syndicates. The gringos get their drugs and the Mexican mafia gets weapons, technology and the means to buy off or intimidate anyone who gets in their way. Caught in the middle is a poor country striving to develop sound institutions for law enforcement. |
...
| Quote: |
| But after 17 months of engagement, while San Diego students party on, victory remains elusive and the Mexican death toll is mounting. Most of the drug-related killings since Mr. Calder�n took office seem to be a result of battles between rival cartels. Still, the escalating violence is troubling. The official death toll attributable to organized crime since the Calder�n crackdown began now stands at 3,995. Of that, 1,170 have died this year. |
...emphasis added...
| Quote: |
| If U.S. law enforcement agencies were losing their finest at such a rate, you can bet Americans would give greater thought to the violence generated by high demand and prohibition. Our friends in Mexico deserve equal consideration. |
Politicians must learn that entire markets cannot be simply legislated away and that litigating morality is a futile exercise. Prohibition failed in the 20s as it is failing with the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act of 1970. The cost has far exceeded the benefits of this supposed venture. It's high time to end it and let people make up their own minds.
Related Video |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:53 am Post subject: Re: This Stupid (Drug) War |
|
|
| Pluto wrote: |
Politicians must learn that entire markets cannot be simply legislated away and that litigating morality is a futile exercise. Prohibition failed in the 20s as it is failing with the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act of 1970. The cost has far exceeded the benefits of this supposed venture. It's high time to end it and let people make up their own minds.
Related Video |
Agree 100%
Free minds. Free markets.
This year, vote Libertarian. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
There are too many vested interests who want to keep the drug war going. It is a multi-billion dollar "industry."
Pluto, check out "The Wire" if you haven't already. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
"Someone Has To Start Wondering What the F Is Going On."
| Quote: |
The Wire co-creator Ed Burns talks about failure in the drug war, public education, the war in Iraq, and police strategies.
Radley Balko | March 7, 2008
Ed Burns is co-creator of HBO's critically acclaimed series The Wire, now concluding its fifth and final season. Burns is also the co-producer of Generation Kill, a forthcoming HBO miniseries based on journalist Evan Wright's book about the first stages of the war in Iraq. Burns is also a Vietnam veteran, a 20-year veteran of the Baltimore police force, and a teacher in the city�s public schools. He�s an outspoken critic of the drug war, the growth of prisons, and the structure, incentives, and organization of police departments. |
...
| Quote: |
reason: Slate�s media critic Jack Shafer has said that the media is at its absolute worst when covering the drug war. Do you agree with him, and if so, why do you think that it is?
Burns: Take just the term �war on drugs.� I mean, they�re not warring on drugs. They�re warring on drug addicts and the users and the small-time dealers. They�re warring on neighborhoods. They�re warring on people who can�t stand up to them. They�re not warring on major dealers.
You can follow it in any city, I don�t care how small it is or how big it is. If the paper is pretty avid about covering who�s getting locked up, you�ll notice that they�re not getting the big guys. They�re not getting the big stakeholders.
|
An interview from Reason Magazine with Ed Burns, the co-creator of HBO's critically acclaimed series The Wire. No doubt the War on Drugs has torn some of these inner cities inside-out. The biggest stakeholders never get caught, instead it is the simple low junkie who gets paraded in the media as a victory in the war on drugs. Furthermore, I would agree the drug war is inherently racist. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The Corner
Good HBO mini-series, also by Ed Burns and David Simon. I'm watching it on DVD now. Depressing and painful, but excellent writing and acting. It is based on the book of the same name.
If you want a history of the war on drugs, I strongly recommend:
Smoke and Mirrors by Dan Baum. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kimbop
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I am a devout libertarian. Cannabis marijuana should be legalized, but not acid, coke, crystal meth, or heroin, since they kill idiots.
We can't have a portion of our society spreading aids by riddling our streets with needles, relying on social support networks due to addiction and brain damage, eating their scabs, and ultimately killing themselves. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Kimbop wrote: |
I am a devout libertarian. Cannabis marijuana should be legalized, but not acid, coke, crystal meth, or heroin, since they kill idiots.
We can't have a portion of our society spreading aids by riddling our streets with needles, relying on social support networks due to addiction and brain damage, eating their scabs, and ultimately killing themselves. |
is that 2nd paragraph being sarcastic? Since uh, that's going on right now. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mole
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Act III
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
People eat their scabs?
Gross. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kimbop
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Kimbop wrote: |
I am a devout libertarian. Cannabis marijuana should be legalized, but not acid, coke, crystal meth, or heroin, since they kill idiots.
We can't have a portion of our society spreading aids by riddling our streets with needles, relying on social support networks due to addiction and brain damage, eating their scabs, and ultimately killing themselves. |
is that 2nd paragraph being sarcastic? Since uh, that's going on right now. |
It's "going on right now" illegally and to a very limited extent. Many of those who proliferate this chaos end up in jail. Imagine the extent of the chaos if hard drugs were legalized. I admit however that convicting a cannabis marijuana user is one tragic aspect of our war on drugs, and agree with the OP insofar as this drug is concerned. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Kimbop wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Kimbop wrote: |
I am a devout libertarian. Cannabis marijuana should be legalized, but not acid, coke, crystal meth, or heroin, since they kill idiots.
We can't have a portion of our society spreading aids by riddling our streets with needles, relying on social support networks due to addiction and brain damage, eating their scabs, and ultimately killing themselves. |
is that 2nd paragraph being sarcastic? Since uh, that's going on right now. |
It's "going on right now" illegally and to a very limited extent. Many of those who proliferate this chaos end up in jail. Imagine the extent of the chaos if hard drugs were legalized. I admit however that convicting a cannabis marijuana user is one tragic aspect of our war on drugs, and agree with the OP insofar as this drug is concerned. |
Very limited extent? Yeah, its in every city in this country. Meth is rampant in rural areas. Want to meet a coke head? Go into the offices of a hedge fund or similar financial business. You'll see a whole bunch of them. Just because it doesn't happen in areas you or your associates hang out in doesn't mean it is "limited".
Why would the chaos grow? All you need to do right now to get drugs is go to your local inner city street corner and you can get crack, heroin, and pot. Cops bust the small-time hood rats but that is it. The whole thing is a joke. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Are posters arguing on this thread to legalize all drugs currently classified as illicit? Cocaine, crack, heroine, meth, etc. Or just marijuana?
My feeling is to compromise, legalize and regulate marijuana, and see what happens. I imagine that at least some of the violence would subside. As far as the hard drugs go, they remain linked with complex socioeconomic problems that we ought to address comprehensively. And, in any case, no, we ought not legalize these poisons.
Pluto: I cannot find an option in your poll that reflects my views on this issue. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kimbop
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Kimbop wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Kimbop wrote: |
I am a devout libertarian. Cannabis marijuana should be legalized, but not acid, coke, crystal meth, or heroin, since they kill idiots.
We can't have a portion of our society spreading aids by riddling our streets with needles, relying on social support networks due to addiction and brain damage, eating their scabs, and ultimately killing themselves. |
is that 2nd paragraph being sarcastic? Since uh, that's going on right now. |
It's "going on right now" illegally and to a very limited extent. Many of those who proliferate this chaos end up in jail. Imagine the extent of the chaos if hard drugs were legalized. I admit however that convicting a cannabis marijuana user is one tragic aspect of our war on drugs, and agree with the OP insofar as this drug is concerned. |
Very limited extent? Yeah, its in every city in this country. Meth is rampant in rural areas. Want to meet a coke head? Go into the offices of a hedge fund or similar financial business. You'll see a whole bunch of them. Just because it doesn't happen in areas you or your associates hang out in doesn't mean it is "limited".
Why would the chaos grow? All you need to do right now to get drugs is go to your local inner city street corner and you can get crack, heroin, and pot. Cops bust the small-time hood rats but that is it. The whole thing is a joke. |
Awesome! Let's debate the definition of "limited extent"! This is so much fun!*
*Only a small and marginalized (or LIMITED, Mr. Thesaurus!) portion of society uses hard drugs.
Bucheonbum thinks that if cocaine, crack, heroin, and meth were available on every street corner in America legally, there would be no increase in chaos! What a silly thing to insinuate!
What next? American beef causes bovine spongiform encepilopathy!? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Kimbop wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Kimbop wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Kimbop wrote: |
I am a devout libertarian. Cannabis marijuana should be legalized, but not acid, coke, crystal meth, or heroin, since they kill idiots.
We can't have a portion of our society spreading aids by riddling our streets with needles, relying on social support networks due to addiction and brain damage, eating their scabs, and ultimately killing themselves. |
is that 2nd paragraph being sarcastic? Since uh, that's going on right now. |
It's "going on right now" illegally and to a very limited extent. Many of those who proliferate this chaos end up in jail. Imagine the extent of the chaos if hard drugs were legalized. I admit however that convicting a cannabis marijuana user is one tragic aspect of our war on drugs, and agree with the OP insofar as this drug is concerned. |
Very limited extent? Yeah, its in every city in this country. Meth is rampant in rural areas. Want to meet a coke head? Go into the offices of a hedge fund or similar financial business. You'll see a whole bunch of them. Just because it doesn't happen in areas you or your associates hang out in doesn't mean it is "limited".
Why would the chaos grow? All you need to do right now to get drugs is go to your local inner city street corner and you can get crack, heroin, and pot. Cops bust the small-time hood rats but that is it. The whole thing is a joke. |
Awesome! Let's debate the definition of "limited extent"! This is so much fun!*
*Only a small and marginalized (or LIMITED, Mr. Thesaurus!) portion of society uses hard drugs.
Bucheonbum thinks that if cocaine, crack, heroin, and meth were available on every street corner in America legally, there would be no increase in chaos! What a silly thing to insinuate!
|
Well if you have any evidence to prove me wrong, I'd be welcome to hear it. And right now, what we have? It is a COMPLETE failure. I sincerely believe that if all drugs were legal, we'd be in no worse shape than we are now. Well at least when it comes to the impact of drugs on our society. That being said, I'm certainly not a die-hard about legalizing drugs. I'd be satisfied if our "war" on drugs shifted and viewed drug use as a disease and not a crime. Also divert more money towards treatment and drug prevention instead of things such as huge SWAT teams and useless narcotics units.
I agree Gopher, that is a reasonable enough compromise; legalizing marijuana would be a good first step. I also would say that shifting our "war" to treatment and treating drug use more as a disease than a crime would be a lot more productive than what we do now. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kimbop
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
"Poor little drug user... you were bored one afternoon, and decided to visit a crackhouse basement and inject heroin into your veins? Oh, and you liked it, and tried it a few dozen more times? And now you're hooked?? Poor little druggie.. Let's spend tax dollars on your treatment! After all, you have a DISEASE!"
America spends most of its 'war on drugs' money on prisons and jails. The crack/heroin junkies/dealers belong in there, but let out the pot peddlars!
You want evidence? Use your head!! Bucheonbum, tell me this: "If hard drugs are legalized, more and more people will use them and get hooked. There will be an increase in addictions, death, brain damage, unemployment, and state dependance."
Admit it! Stop arguing nonsense! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Justin Hale
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
Prohibition and law enforcement of popular products is an extremely oldfashioned and incompetent policy. It's puzzling how conservatives can be such supporters of capitalism and prohibition at the same time, because the combination is the best way to flood the streets with drugs. Then we've got to pay the police literally billions to chase these people and in so doing divert their much-needed attention from the pursuit of terrorists, rapists and pedophiles. A complete mess. Given also that prohibition has had the complete opposite of its every intended effect, perhaps the sanity of prohibition-supporters is as questionable as that of the folks doing all the drugs.
How we should deal with drugs depends on the drug. Cannabis and ecstasy are so statistically benign and non-addicting (with fishing and peanuts more deadly than ecstasy), it's difficult to make a case for these drugs not being on open sale like tobacco and alcohol. With hard drugs, I'd like to see restricted legalization whereby those chronically addicted can get a clean state fix and begin to live otherwise productive lives. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
