Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Gollywog]

Many, if not most, Koreans seem to be scared of being in a room with all the doors and windows closed. This is especially true in the winter, when students will sneak the classroom windows open the moment you are not looking. But even the teachers' lounge will usually have the windows wide open while the heat is on full blast.

Why?

No Korean has yet given me a straight answer to why they feel compelled to open the windows. One poster said they were told it was because of "bad air."

I have asked teachers whether it was because of carbon monoxide, but all I got was a blank stare. They hadn't heard of carbon monoxide, or were unaware of the symptoms.

I was looking at how well the on demand water heaters are vented these days. They are very careful to fully vent them to the outside. Someone obviously knows all about carbon monoxide now. But it is not energy efficient.

In the old days, they wouldn't have wasted this heat; it would have been sent through the ondol pipes.

What if the pipes weren't perfectly sealed off from the room above?

It seems unlikely that in the days before modern cements and glues, that the joints of the pipes, presumably made of clay, could be perfectly sealed. The floor could be sealed well, if built properly.

But a careless builder, especially someone building a home for themselves without professional training, might leave some cracks, thinking them to be harmless, and if anything allowing more heat into the room.

If there are gaps allowing the hot fire exhaust air to reach the room, and if the doors and windows are closed tight, people would get nauseous, get headaches, become drowsy, fall asleep, and perhaps die in their sleep.

Not knowing the precise cause of this, people might simply ascribe it to "bad air" and establish a firm rule of keeping a window or door open at all times, even when the ondol system was built correctly.

Given Koreans' penchant for tradition, it would not be surprising to see this rule still applied, even when hot air ondol floor heating is no longer used.

Now you are more likely to see hot water radiant floor heating, radiators, or central hot air/ac. How water radiant heating, invented by Frank Lloyd Wright, does not pose a risk of carbon monoxide poisoning, of course. Nor do other modern heating systems.

I am not an expert on ondol construction, but I did find this:

[eamo]

Yes. I've always thought the same. When ondol meant lighting wood fires under the floor, it was probably prudent to open a window to allow the inevitable fumes and smoke to clear.

But it doesn't explain opening a window in summer when the air-con is on. Maybe the inherited belief is that a window should always be open. Period.

[captain kirk]

I think you're absolutely right, Golliwog.

I saw another old tradition folk belief in Korea and mentioned it to Grade 6 class.

Out in front of a Korean traditional type farm house (kind with the courtyard, adjacent cowbarn, etc.), on the clothesline, was a clear plastic glove full of water, like a 'water balloon hand'. It was clipped there.

The kids said it's basically a 'mousquito scarecrow'. The mousquitos are afraid that this 'hand' will smack them. It scares mosquitos away from the yard and so they don't hang around and enter the house.

I asked them, 'does it work?'. They shouted 'yes!'. They weren't serious. By enthusiastically shouting 'Yes' they were taking the piss and getting a laugh out of it.

I'd heard, years ago on Dave's, this being done and the story then was the mousquitos suck water out of the water-filled glove like it's a decoy. And leave the area disatisfied.
__________

But back to ondol heating and carbon monoxide. If someone died, overcome in their sleep by carbon monoxide, the grief and alarm would pass on in helpful folklore beliefs. To this day even.

Then there's 'fan death'. Supposedly the fan does what? Steals the air? Presumably leaving carbon dioxide. So never leave a fan on with all windows closed, Koreans say.

[Gollywog]

This fan death thing is still a bit of a mystery. Hard getting a co-teacher to even admit the belief exists, to have a discussion.

There are other explanations for why some people have difficulty breathing, or even stop breathing and die suddenly.

I've been wondering if fan death is an attempt to explain things like sleep apnea and SIDs - sudden infant death syndrome.

[bluelake]

Interesting topic. As one who has a hanok with a traditional wood-fired ondol, I'll comment.

You do have to be careful with the trad type of floor heating. When my wife and I use the room that has it, we keep the doors cracked at night. After years of service, the stone, clay, etc. cracks, oiled floor covering scorches and occasionally visible smoke can be seen when first firing it up. I've patched the areas where the wall meets the floor, but it's probably a bit of an empty gesture. Hence, we keep the doors cracked at night. At the same time, I don't usually like sleeping in there as my wife likes it at a temperature that can cook a side of US beef (me).

As for the opening of the windows no matter what type of house one is in, I'm not sure. My wife does that everywhere. She will usually say something like, "I can't breathe in here" and opens up windows all over the place. It gets a bit annoying when I'm sitting around in the morning in my drawers and it's well below zero outside. Also, she sometimes talks about "changing the air".

[billybrobby]

I imagine the legitimate fear of ondol created a hazy complex of less rational fears related to air and death during sleep. But I'll tell you, they're certainly fearless when it comes to breathing in regular pollution. (sorry, that wasn't really fair)

[captain kirk]

[schwa]

Google "korea carbon monoxide" & the first link that comes up is an article in the British Medical Journal from 1999 with this info:

Economics and geography, as much as pathology and biochemistry, determine someone's susceptibility to carbon monoxide poisoning. Korea's population is slightly smaller the United Kingdom's, yet 20 years ago there were around 3000 deaths and a million admissions a year, and by 1982, 300 hospitals were equipped with hyperbaric oxygen facilities. Korean houses are still commonly heated by a large coal brick dropped into a space beneath the living area. Horizontal �chimneys� pass under other rooms in the house to provide heat, and several dwellings often share a final common flue. [bolding mine]

Those are huge numbers & well within the memory of all adult Koreans. I'm not surprised they're wary of "bad air."

[Gollywog]

Interesting information, bluelake.

So, do you think the system was better sealed when it was built? How old is it?

If I were you, I'd get a carbon monoxide alarm, better yet, one with a digital readout so you could see if there are any minor problems, if you can find one. Perhaps this alarm would help relieve the anxiety of your wife. And it could save your life.

[nobbyken]

Instead of going out for some fresh air, let some in. Seems a fair idea?

My wife passed out from a dodgy CO2 vent twice, and her sister did once when they were kids. Dieing from poisining was quiet common for people.

[bluelake]

[bluelake]

[bluelake]

[VanIslander]

seems obvious to me

and I swear the modern ondol system of using hot water instead of hot air (developed by the American Frank Lloyd Wright not by Koreans, who adopted it later and abandoned their traditional way) causes respiratory problems in the winter

i leave my windows open at least a little all year round here and use fans to circulate the heat and get some fresh air

[bassexpander]