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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| warren pease wrote: |
| Ok, let's be reasonable. The image of a [insert advertising image] is offensive to... |
The current environment has enabled hypersensitive people and cultural chauvinists to bully the rest of us on multiple fronts. If we were to move to satisfy them, each and every one of them, that is, each and every perspective that has emerged, then we would create a vanilla-only world -- in language and writing, in entertainment, in culture generally. In other words, in thought.
Remove everything that any number of groups, individually or corporately, find "offensive," and what remains? Moreover, who is cracking the whip and driving our socieities? And in which direction are they driving us?
These are the Thought Police, Warren. Why appease them? Why give them even an inch on anything whatsoever? Why continue to enable and empower them? |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| warren pease wrote: |
Should a Jewish business man be asked to display a swastika?
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Yeah, puppies, swastika. I see your point. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| warren pease wrote: |
| Ok, let's be reasonable. The image of a [insert advertising image] is offensive to... |
The current environment has enabled hypersensitive people and cultural chauvinists to bully the rest of us on multiple fronts. If we were to move to satisfy them, each and every one of them, that is, each and every perspective that has emerged, then we would create a vanilla-only world -- in language and writing, in entertainment, in culture generally. In other words, in thought.
Remove everything that any number of groups, individually or corporately, find "offensive," and what remains? Moreover, who is cracking the whip and driving our socieities? And in which direction are they driving us?
These are the Thought Police, Warren. Why appease them? Why give them even an inch on anything whatsoever? Why continue to enable and empower them? |
On the "50 millon babies" thread, Gopher bullies a couple of posters and states outright that they should be banned for their controversial or provocative views. Here he takes the exact opposite stance.
Gopher, do you just argue for the sake of arguing?
It must be very stressful to be schizoid. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Leslie Cheswyck wrote: |
| warren pease wrote: |
Should a Jewish business man be asked to display a swastika?
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Yeah, puppies, swastika. I see your point. |
Exactly. What a fucking joke. I can't believe he even wrote that. And used the word "reasonable" at the start.
The West is just about done. We are exhausted. It is almost over. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| And, more generally, has anyone else noticed that these stories about creeping dhimmitude almost always come from either a small circle of bloggers(Green Footballs etc), and/or the Daily Mail newspaper? |
Yep. The Daily Mail is just the snobby version of The Sun. A load of crap that no-one with much sense wouldn't take with a pinch of salt.
I was just reading The Guardianista just now and saw this which relates to this thread:
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Peter Oborne, the well-known right-wing columnist who is behind the Dispatches programme, pointed this out in two pieces published last week, one in the Daily Mail, the other in the Independent. He spoke out against Islamophobia and how the press is to blame for producing ridiculous stories about Muslims, like the one that appeared last week (funnily enough in the Mail) about how a police advert featuring a puppy sparked 'outrage' from Muslims who find dogs offensive.
For the record, I'm Muslim. Trust me, we don't have an issue with puppies.
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(bolding emphasis mine)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jul/06/islam.religion
btw, you might find the full article interesting OTOH. It's a normal British muslim's perspective on having to contend with prejudice against muslims. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:29 am Post subject: |
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| warren pease wrote: |
Ok, let's be reasonable. The image of a dog is offensive to Muslims. If some governmental agency told you that you had to post an image of something that you found offensive (think aqufresh) in you business where people with similar tastes frequented wouldn't you be upset? Granted, it's a puppy but one man's puppy is another man's back door bottle holder. People should have a right not to post, or to feel pressure to post, things in their own establishments that they find distasteful.
Should a Jewish business man be asked to display a swastika?
Should a Christian be forced to display a crucified cartoon character?
Should a Hindu... eh Hinduian, Hindu person.... anyway, be asked to display a picture of cut and seered beef?
Should the Amish be forced to display light bulbs?
People, especially, when they have become established in a society should have the right to petition to live reasonably unoffended. At least by the people who are paid, in part, by their tax dollars. |
The absurdness of your examples have already been noted, but the main point is this; in Britain, the vast majority of people are not offended by images of dogs, and while Muslims are living in the West, it is in their best interests to adapt to the culture of the indigeneous majority. If they cannot do this, there are plenty of Muslim countries to which they could relocate. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:38 am Post subject: |
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Peter Oborne, the well-known right-wing columnist who is behind the Dispatches programme, pointed this out in two pieces published last week, one in the Daily Mail, the other in the Independent. He spoke out against Islamophobia and how the press is to blame for producing ridiculous stories about Muslims, like the one that appeared last week (funnily enough in the Mail) about how a police advert featuring a puppy sparked 'outrage' from Muslims who find dogs offensive.
But why do we not see equally 'ridiculous' stories about other ethnic minorities in the UK. Is it perhaps because other minorities seem to have a much easier time integrating into British life, and are not constantly asking for their cultural values (often quite bizarre) to be 'respected'. It is the behaviour of some Muslims (by no means all) that creates anti-Muslim feeling, and it is moderate Muslims themselves who must stand up and counter this nonsense. |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:44 am Post subject: |
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| wannago wrote: |
| warren pease wrote: |
Ok, let's be reasonable. The image of a dog is offensive to Muslims. If some governmental agency told you that you had to post an image of something that you found offensive (think aqufresh) in you business where people with similar tastes frequented wouldn't you be upset? Granted, it's a puppy but one man's puppy is another man's back door bottle holder. People should have a right not to post, or to feel pressure to post, things in their own establishments that they find distasteful.
Should a Jewish business man be asked to display a swastika?
Should a Christian be forced to display a crucified cartoon character?
Should a Hindu... eh Hinduian, Hindu person.... anyway, be asked to display a picture of cut and seered beef?
Should the Amish be forced to display light bulbs?
People, especially, when they have become established in a society should have the right to petition to live reasonably unoffended. At least by the people who are paid, in part, by their tax dollars. |
Except the image of a dog is not offensive to Muslims. A pig, maybe. The only thing the Koran says about dogs is that Muslims are not to touch their nose and mouth area. This is just another example of how Islam is trying to bend western governments to meet their needs. It really has little to do with religion. It has everything to do with exploiting western nations' pathetic need to have everyone be free from offense. |
Yeah, this is simply political correctness gone out of control. Its just like Jews throwing a fit over Christmas pageants in schools, or Christians throwing fits over the observance of Hannukah, or Pagans mad about Halloween witches, etc.
The PC mentality has simply been taken too far. It was a good idea, essentially "try not to intentionally piss other people off." It has become "you better not piss anyone off even by accident." When did intent stop being important in weighing the actions of others? |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:47 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
Peter Oborne, the well-known right-wing columnist who is behind the Dispatches programme, pointed this out in two pieces published last week, one in the Daily Mail, the other in the Independent. He spoke out against Islamophobia and how the press is to blame for producing ridiculous stories about Muslims, like the one that appeared last week (funnily enough in the Mail) about how a police advert featuring a puppy sparked 'outrage' from Muslims who find dogs offensive.
But why do we not see equally 'ridiculous' stories about other ethnic minorities in the UK. Is it perhaps because other minorities seem to have a much easier time integrating into British life, and are not constantly asking for their cultural values (often quite bizarre) to be 'respected'. It is the behaviour of some Muslims (by no means all) that creates anti-Muslim feeling, and it is moderate Muslims themselves who must stand up and counter this nonsense. |
Because those stories are not newsworthy at the moment. Don't worry, if any other minority becomes a popular scape-goat, we'll soon find dirt to dish on them. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| So long as I can still buy my Special Brew and copy of Big Jugs, Muslim shopkeepers can exercise their morality any way they see fit. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
Peter Oborne, the well-known right-wing columnist who is behind the Dispatches programme, pointed this out in two pieces published last week, one in the Daily Mail, the other in the Independent. He spoke out against Islamophobia and how the press is to blame for producing ridiculous stories about Muslims, like the one that appeared last week (funnily enough in the Mail) about how a police advert featuring a puppy sparked 'outrage' from Muslims who find dogs offensive.
But why do we not see equally 'ridiculous' stories about other ethnic minorities in the UK. Is it perhaps because other minorities seem to have a much easier time integrating into British life, and are not constantly asking for their cultural values (often quite bizarre) to be 'respected'. It is the behaviour of some Muslims (by no means all) that creates anti-Muslim feeling, and it is moderate Muslims themselves who must stand up and counter this nonsense. |
Because those stories are not newsworthy at the moment. Don't worry, if any other minority becomes a popular scape-goat, we'll soon find dirt to dish on them. |
No, it's because those news stories are few and far between. How many extremist Hindu, Jewish or Sikh groups are there in Britain calling for the overthrow of British democracy, and its replacement by ancient religious law? The point is that other minorities are not involved in the kind of objectionable behaviour that Muslims often are. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:02 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
Peter Oborne, the well-known right-wing columnist who is behind the Dispatches programme, pointed this out in two pieces published last week, one in the Daily Mail, the other in the Independent. He spoke out against Islamophobia and how the press is to blame for producing ridiculous stories about Muslims, like the one that appeared last week (funnily enough in the Mail) about how a police advert featuring a puppy sparked 'outrage' from Muslims who find dogs offensive.
But why do we not see equally 'ridiculous' stories about other ethnic minorities in the UK. Is it perhaps because other minorities seem to have a much easier time integrating into British life, and are not constantly asking for their cultural values (often quite bizarre) to be 'respected'. It is the behaviour of some Muslims (by no means all) that creates anti-Muslim feeling, and it is moderate Muslims themselves who must stand up and counter this nonsense. |
Because those stories are not newsworthy at the moment. Don't worry, if any other minority becomes a popular scape-goat, we'll soon find dirt to dish on them. |
No, it's because those news stories are few and far between. How many extremist Hindu, Jewish or Sikh groups are there in Britain calling for the overthrow of British democracy, and its replacement by ancient religious law? The point is that other minorities are not involved in the kind of objectionable behaviour that Muslims often are. |
Yes, a good question. How many? You don't even know because if there is, no-one is interested in reporting it. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
Peter Oborne, the well-known right-wing columnist who is behind the Dispatches programme, pointed this out in two pieces published last week, one in the Daily Mail, the other in the Independent. He spoke out against Islamophobia and how the press is to blame for producing ridiculous stories about Muslims, like the one that appeared last week (funnily enough in the Mail) about how a police advert featuring a puppy sparked 'outrage' from Muslims who find dogs offensive.
But why do we not see equally 'ridiculous' stories about other ethnic minorities in the UK. Is it perhaps because other minorities seem to have a much easier time integrating into British life, and are not constantly asking for their cultural values (often quite bizarre) to be 'respected'. It is the behaviour of some Muslims (by no means all) that creates anti-Muslim feeling, and it is moderate Muslims themselves who must stand up and counter this nonsense. |
Because those stories are not newsworthy at the moment. Don't worry, if any other minority becomes a popular scape-goat, we'll soon find dirt to dish on them. |
No, it's because those news stories are few and far between. How many extremist Hindu, Jewish or Sikh groups are there in Britain calling for the overthrow of British democracy, and its replacement by ancient religious law? The point is that other minorities are not involved in the kind of objectionable behaviour that Muslims often are. |
Yes, a good question. How many? You don't even know because if there is, no-one is interested in reporting it. |
It was obviously a rhetorical question. There are no such groups, equivalent to the likes of Hizb-ut-Tahrir, the Muslim Association of Britain (a front for the Muslim brotherhood) and as yet I have never heard of any Sikh, Hindu or Jewish leaders in the UK referring to non-believers as infidels and other such slurs. But just keep kidding yourself that this is not a Muslim problem and that it is just some kind of media conspiracy. In the meantime, I will wait with baited breath for the Channel 4 documentary 'Undercover Temple'. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
Peter Oborne, the well-known right-wing columnist who is behind the Dispatches programme, pointed this out in two pieces published last week, one in the Daily Mail, the other in the Independent. He spoke out against Islamophobia and how the press is to blame for producing ridiculous stories about Muslims, like the one that appeared last week (funnily enough in the Mail) about how a police advert featuring a puppy sparked 'outrage' from Muslims who find dogs offensive.
But why do we not see equally 'ridiculous' stories about other ethnic minorities in the UK. Is it perhaps because other minorities seem to have a much easier time integrating into British life, and are not constantly asking for their cultural values (often quite bizarre) to be 'respected'. It is the behaviour of some Muslims (by no means all) that creates anti-Muslim feeling, and it is moderate Muslims themselves who must stand up and counter this nonsense. |
Because those stories are not newsworthy at the moment. Don't worry, if any other minority becomes a popular scape-goat, we'll soon find dirt to dish on them. |
Breathtaking.
When Chinese in the UK start blowing up mass transit and burning hindu dudes alive for touching Chinese women, you won't be nutty. When Hindu dudes start attacking Jews en masse, you won't be nutty.
There is no comparable element in the Chinese, Korean, Hindu, Japanese, Latin, Eastern European or other immigrant group. There just isn't.
That somebody who comes from the country that is supplying radicalized terrorists in numerical levels comparable to Saudi and Pakistan doesn't get this is more than scary, it is explanatory. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
Peter Oborne, the well-known right-wing columnist who is behind the Dispatches programme, pointed this out in two pieces published last week, one in the Daily Mail, the other in the Independent. He spoke out against Islamophobia and how the press is to blame for producing ridiculous stories about Muslims, like the one that appeared last week (funnily enough in the Mail) about how a police advert featuring a puppy sparked 'outrage' from Muslims who find dogs offensive.
But why do we not see equally 'ridiculous' stories about other ethnic minorities in the UK. Is it perhaps because other minorities seem to have a much easier time integrating into British life, and are not constantly asking for their cultural values (often quite bizarre) to be 'respected'. It is the behaviour of some Muslims (by no means all) that creates anti-Muslim feeling, and it is moderate Muslims themselves who must stand up and counter this nonsense. |
Because those stories are not newsworthy at the moment. Don't worry, if any other minority becomes a popular scape-goat, we'll soon find dirt to dish on them. |
Breathtaking.
When Chinese in the UK start blowing up mass transit and burning hindu dudes alive for touching Chinese women, you won't be nutty. When Hindu dudes start attacking Jews en masse, you won't be nutty.
There is no comparable element in the Chinese, Korean, Hindu, Japanese, Latin, Eastern European or other immigrant group. There just isn't.
That somebody who comes from the country that is supplying radicalized terrorists in numerical levels comparable to Saudi and Pakistan doesn't get this is more than scary, it is explanatory. |
10 years ago you never read anything about muslim wickedness in the paper. This focus on muslims stems from politics, not religion. We are not presently fucking about setting up bases or occupations in China, India or in any of the original counties of any of the ethnicities you've mentioned. If we did, it would be another story.
btw, hindus already do attack muslims and sihks en masse, and Christian missionaries are often targetted too - sometimes by being burned alive with their children. It just happens there are not many jews in India, or they'd be getting the hindu funtamentalist treatment too. If we came into political conflict with India in some way you can imagine how much rags like The Daily Mail and The Telegraph would focus on this. And we'd suddenly hear sensational stories about disgruntled hindu youth in the UK, angry at pictures of roast beef advertised on buses.
Last edited by Big_Bird on Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:03 am; edited 2 times in total |
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