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uberscheisse
Joined: 02 Dec 2003
Location: japan is better than korea.
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 Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:57 am Post subject: jesse helms is dead. |
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| and it's important to reiterate that it's ok to celebrate when shitty people die. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:21 am Post subject: |
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I think you will find that that sentiment is already being subjected to some pretty heated debate on this thread...
http://tinyurl.com/5v6or5 |
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uberscheisse
Joined: 02 Dec 2003
Location: japan is better than korea.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| yeah, the thread title, while being correct, didn't exactly scream that it was a thread about helms. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| uberscheisse wrote: |
| yeah, the thread title, while being correct, didn't exactly scream that it was a thread about helms. |
Yeah, and neither did the discussion. I can groove that some non-Americans could care less about a racist, homophobic US Senator who did his best to hold back social progress for the entire span of his life and career, but it DOES get tiresome to see people who candidly admit they know nothing about a topic decide we'd all rather not talk about it, and talk about Arafat and Kissinger instead.
About Jesse Helms : From Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting.
Of civil rights protests Helms wrote, "The Negro cannot count forever on the kind of restraint that's thus far left him free to clog the streets, disrupt traffic, and interfere with other men's rights." (WRAL-TV commentary, 1963) He also wrote, "Crime rates and irresponsibility among Negroes are a fact of life which must be faced." (New York Times, 2/8/81)
Over the years Helms has declared homosexuality "degenerate," and homosexuals "weak, morally sick wretches." (Newsweek, 12/5/94) In a tirade highlighting his routine opposition to AIDS research funding, Helms lashed out at the Kennedy-Hatch AIDS bill in 1988: "There is not one single case of AIDS in this country that cannot be traced in origin to sodomy." (States News Service, 5/17/8
The BBC's obit
On domestic issues, he provoked the ire of liberals around the country with his crusade against abortion, homosexuality and affirmative action - programmes to overcome the effects of past discrimination by allocating resources to members of specific minority groups.
His high-profile opposition to the nomination of some black Americans to judicial and ambassadorial positions also led to accusations of racism.
"Just think about it, homosexuals, lesbians - disgusting people - marching in our streets, demanding all sorts of things including the right to marry each other and the right to adopt children. How do you like (that)?" he said.
North Carolina Progressive, February 6, 1985
I've been portrayed as a caveman by some. That's not true. I'm a conservative progressive, and that means I think all men are equal, be they slants, beaners, or niggers. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| uberscheisse wrote: |
| yeah, the thread title, while being correct, didn't exactly scream that it was a thread about helms. |
Yeah, and neither did the discussion. I can groove that some non-Americans could care less about a racist, homophobic US Senator who did his best to hold back social progress for the entire span of his life and career, but it DOES get tiresome to see people who candidly admit they know nothing about a topic decide we'd all rather not talk about it, and talk about Arafat and Kissinger instead. |
You never stop do you? When did I ever object to anyone discussing him? You are always inventing and reinventing other posters' beliefs and misrepresenting what they have said on these forums. I was amused by daskalos's OP and intrigued enough by OTOH's pictorial contribution to go and find out who he was. I had no problem at all with anyone loving him or hating him on that thread. I couldn't have given a rat's. My side discussion was prompted by Gopher's selective amnesia regarding what sort of people (from what part of the political spectrum) gloat over a political figure's death, and then further motivated by Kuro's very strange morality.
I think you need to get new reading glasses, mate.
I'm sorry the thread was destroyed because I was interested in hearing more about why daskalos felt so strongly.. Unfortunately, TUM made sure that the mods took care of it. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| it DOES get tiresome to see people who candidly admit they know nothing about a topic decide we'd all rather not talk about it, and talk about Arafat and Kissinger instead. |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| My side discussion was prompted by Gopher's selective amnesia regarding what sort of people (from what part of the political spectrum) gloat over a political figure's death, and then further motivated by Kuro's very strange morality. |
You are DOING IT AGAIN.
As I believe I said before, before having my morality examined based on the interpretations of a thread that is no longer in existence, I have to say that celebrating a non-mass killer's death is not my cup of tea. Jesse Helms, while pretty revolting, was not a mass killer. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:43 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| The Bobster wrote: |
| uberscheisse wrote: |
| yeah, the thread title, while being correct, didn't exactly scream that it was a thread about helms. |
Yeah, and neither did the discussion. I can groove that some non-Americans could care less about a racist, homophobic US Senator who did his best to hold back social progress for the entire span of his life and career, but it DOES get tiresome to see people who candidly admit they know nothing about a topic decide we'd all rather not talk about it, and talk about Arafat and Kissinger instead. |
You never stop do you? When did I ever object to anyone discussing him? You are always inventing and reinventing other posters' beliefs and misrepresenting what they have said on these forums. I was amused by daskalos's OP and intrigued enough by OTOH's pictorial contribution to go and find out who he was. I had no problem at all with anyone loving him or hating him on that thread. I couldn't have given a rat's. My side discussion was prompted by Gopher's selective amnesia regarding what sort of people (from what part of the political spectrum) gloat over a political figure's death.
I think you need to get new glasses, mate. |
My, my. A little touchy today, aren't we.
It's a fact, though, that you didn't know or care about the topic of the thread. It's a fact that you contributed nothing to the topic, and it's a fact that you neither knew nor acred about it, not being American.
I never said you objected to toher people talking about the topic. You invented that, right here in front of us.
I never said a word about your beliefs, nor did I either represent or misrepresent you. All I said is that you had a lot to say about Arafat and Kissinger on a thread that had not even the slightest thing to with them, or your personal definitions of terrorism or the ghastly stuff that happened at Munich Olympics in the 70s - but nothing to say about Jesse Helms. If you think that misrepresents you, then I simply think you are wrong.
And you have every right to distract any thread you like away from topics about which you are ignorant and apathetic - as I said, I can groove on that.
You can do that, fine. And I can say that I find it tiresome. Okay? You say what you want and I say what I want.
But don't go accusing me of saying things that aren't true - "inventing and reinventing" - because I haven't lied or misrepresnted you at all.
Oh, and by the way - know what? You STILL have nothing to say about the topic, do you? Didn't think so. And not only that, your sense of humor has gotten lost somewhere ...
Grumble, grumble, doggam faeces molester, rassinfassin, shusshhahshuh ... |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| It's a fact that you suggested that I 'decide(d) we'd all rather not talk about it' which is what I am responding to, and which was ABSOLUTE INVENION ON YOUR PART. Love your selective anmesia. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:53 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| The Bobster wrote: |
| uberscheisse wrote: |
| yeah, the thread title, while being correct, didn't exactly scream that it was a thread about helms. |
Yeah, and neither did the discussion. I can groove that some non-Americans could care less about a racist, homophobic US Senator who did his best to hold back social progress for the entire span of his life and career, but it DOES get tiresome to see people who candidly admit they know nothing about a topic decide we'd all rather not talk about it, and talk about Arafat and Kissinger instead. |
You never stop do you? When did I ever object to anyone discussing him? You are always inventing and reinventing other posters' beliefs and misrepresenting what they have said on these forums. I was amused by daskalos's OP and intrigued enough by OTOH's pictorial contribution to go and find out who he was. I had no problem at all with anyone loving him or hating him on that thread. I couldn't have given a rat's. My side discussion was prompted by Gopher's selective amnesia regarding what sort of people (from what part of the political spectrum) gloat over a political figure's death, and then further motivated by Kuro's very strange morality.
I think you need to get new reading glasses, mate.
I'm sorry the thread was destroyed because I was interested in hearing more about why daskalos felt so strongly.. Unfortunately, TUM made sure that the mods took care of it. |
Because it violated the TOS. You know, that's what we're ASKED to do.
That thread was way overboard, and while I think Jesse Helms was quite a nasty piece of work...he's DEAD for BEEP'S sake. Do people have nary a shred of common decency?
If he had been a mass murderer like Hitler and the like then I might have joined in the cheering...but he was just a sad pathetic person who couldn't look past the skin colour of another human being. While he himself is not deserving in any sort of praise, I certainly don't see that his passing warrents such gloating or trolling posts. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:01 am Post subject: |
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I disagree.
If an entertainer dies and you didn't enjoy their work, I think it's low to jump in and mock them. Better to let it go in silence. Judgements about acting and singing are pretty subjective.
But when a public figure who made a career of discrimination which affected the lives of millions and the echoes of their 'work' continues to affect people's lives, then it's a different matter.
I don't think body counts is the standard by which we should be measuring this. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:36 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Jesse Helms, while pretty revolting, was not a mass killer. |
I understand that, as a result of his nasty prejudices, he worked tirelessly to oppose funding for research on AIDS and HIV, which means he knowingly worked to prevent the spread and treatment of AIDS. Which means many thousands of people possibly died when they might not have. Which makes him comparable to a mass killer. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:14 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| It's a fact that you suggested that I 'decide(d) we'd all rather not talk about it' which is what I am responding to, and which was ABSOLUTE INVENION ON YOUR PART. Love your selective anmesia. |
Okay, aigo, I take it back. You decided nothing, and it was forced on you. No conscious volition on your part involved. I get it. Mea culpa. My fault for seeing that YOU were the victim in all of that ...
You still haven't found your sense of humor, have you?
| Quote: |
Kuros wrote:
| Quote: |
| Jesse Helms, while pretty revolting, was not a mass killer. |
I understand that, as a result of his nasty prejudices, he worked tirelessly to oppose funding for research on AIDS and HIV, which means he knowingly worked to prevent the spread and treatment of AIDS. Which means many thousands of people possibly died when they might not have. Which makes him comparable to a mass killer. |
Amazing. TUM ... did you SEE that? She spoke on the topic! Glory Halleleuja, Praise God Ahmighty! Can I get a witness?!!??
(B_B, might wanna look closely at the grammar, though ...) |
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uberscheisse
Joined: 02 Dec 2003
Location: japan is better than korea.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:16 am Post subject: |
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he made a career partly off of the tobacco industry. that alone puts him up there with hitler in my books.
if i wasn't so busy right now i'd have a party. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Jesse Helms, while pretty revolting, was not a mass killer. |
I understand that, as a result of his nasty prejudices, he worked tirelessly to oppose funding for research on AIDS and HIV, which means he knowingly worked to prevent the spread and treatment of AIDS. Which means many thousands of people possibly died when they might not have. Which makes him comparable to a mass killer. |
It does nothing of the sort. Can you find ONE person who died because Jesse Helms opposed funding for research.? Heck can you find even ONE BILL for the funding for research for AIDS and HIV that was killed or stalled because JESSE HELMS opposed it? 
And "possible" deaths...give me a break.
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| uberscheisse wrote: |
he made a career partly off of the tobacco industry. that alone puts him up there with hitler in my books.
if i wasn't so busy right now i'd have a party. |
So have millions of other people. I guess all those workers and farmers are equal with Hitler as well. |
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