Korean Job Discussion Forums

[citizen erased]

"Requiring" a personal interview when the teacher is in-country (when they wouldn't ask the same of an overseas applicant), feeling as though youve got leverage as a hagwan owner over a teacher when that teacher is here and experienced...


have you seen this man?

[sojourner1]

Hey, it's better to visit where you might work and meet your boss in person to get an idea if you really want to work there or not. I hate taking a job and not knowing what I'm walking into, but that's how it works in most cases. It's a crap shoot gamble if blindly going in like most of us are doing.

If you are interested, just go and check it out. Since you're in Korea, look for a job in person to find good people to work for. You don't work for a company, you work for people. You can get a sense if they're hiding something or if they're assholes or if they're are good people you want to work a year or longer with.

[icicle]

I do not see requring an inperson interview as a disadvantage. It really is an advantage because it does give you at least more of an idea of what the school is like ... what it would be like to work there ... than is possible iwithout it.

Why do you see it as a disadvantage, as a bad thing?

[Tobias]

I agree with Sojourner. It has become too costly to come here, pound the pavement, visit schools, meet potential employers, and decide which is best.

But maybe not, though. Has anyone taken a freighter home instead of a plane? For those coming here from a place such as the USA, that mode may offer an alternative to flying. If not the ship, then getting a job here is now a total 'crap shoot' as already mentioned, unless one likes to subsidize airlines.

Maybe somebody can create a sort of consulting business in which he offers (cough) objective advice to those wishing to head this way but have yet to decide on an employer. He could do all the pavement pounding, interviewing, and whatnot for a fee.

[ttompatz]

[bassexpander]

I LOVE in-person interviews. I'd never accept a job without one! You can learn so much about a boss and a school that way.

Would you buy a car without seeing it? No way! Why would you accept a job without seeing the school and meeting the boss? The first time around, I could understand (so long as the school provided photos) but after that, I would insist on seeing every school.

As a matter of fact, I still visited Korea to job-hunt before I took my first job. That's not so easy to do anymore.

I've become quite old, experienced, and jaded. It's not easy for a school to pull a fast one on me in an interview. I've been screwed-over more than once, and have learned a lot.

To give you an idea... a hagwon in my area wanted to hire me to work a few extra evening hours for them (my friend worked there). I knew they were short one teacher because the previous teacher had been screwed out of proper pay. I told the boss of that school I'd be happy to work for him if he payed me daily. He scoffed and said there was no way that was going to happen. I asked why I should trust him to pay me, seeing as he had to hire me because he had failed to pay his last employee?

In most cases, bosses screw you over because you open yourself up to being screwed.

[Teachurrrr]

I usually don't rely on an in-person interview to tell me very much about a school or a boss.

In the past, I have found that if the interviewer asks real questions about teaching experince and classroom management, it turns out to be okay.

If the interviewer tells this 5'6'' 230 lb (104 kg) balding, hairy armed side show monkey that I am handsome and adds some other gratuitous flattery, they are telling me everything they think I want to hear. No good.

Sojourner1 said "It's better to visit where you might work and meet your boss in person to get an idea if you really want to work there or not. I hate taking a job and not knowing what I'm walking into ..."

In my experience , talking to an extremely polite, well-dressed Korean person in a fabulously decorated school with happy smiling teachers (foreign and/or local) doesn't tell me what I am walking into most times. Maybe I'm daft.

Sojourner1, I can't really get a good sense that they are hiding something in an in-person interview. Some overly polite Koreans have actually been polite and helpful. Other overly polite Korean people have been out to put the screws to others and me.

Icicle said, "It really is an advantage (an in-person interview) because it does give you at least more of an idea of what the school is like ... what it would be like to work there ... than is possible iwithout it."

I don't know if I agree. If everything sounds kosher, with or without the in-person interview/school visit, I ask to see the contract. If most important contract points sounds solid and acceptable to me, then I judge the school to be one less likely to screw me over financially or otherwise. It's not perfect, but what I have learned from reading posts on Dave's has really helped me get a better idea if a school is good based on action rather than words.

Tobias, you have a wonderful idea about a consultant to help teachers find a good school. Unfortunately, they are called recruiters. For me, the best consultants are usually the posters on Dave's. See the contract review thread. It's been a big help for me in years past as well as this past June when I accepted a new contract in Masan.

Bassexpander said, "I LOVE in-person interviews. I'd never accept a job without one! You can learn so much about a boss and a school that way."

Please share some advice on what cues and clues you in on a good boss/school. I would love to add more to my "getting hired by a good school" arsenal.

Bassexpander, I hear you about being prepared for a "fast one" and "being screwed over." I use to think of myself a rather savvy ESL teacher not easily fooled. Yet it is my opinion today that choosing a bad school that seemed good can happen to the most experienced hands as well as to newbies. I guess the difference is we should know better.

If I read a contract that has one or more red flags that are not open to negotiation or conclusion (getting an answer in a timely manner), then I stupidly accept the contract, I should know where there's smoke, there's fire.

I have completed 5 successful contracts in Korea (meaning I survived with most of my back side in tact). It's more than some but not as much as others. Anyway, I accepted a contract with a new school in 2006 that completely screwed me over. When my brain is working, I just go with instincts on contract points that I learned from this site over the years. There are reasons why they are posted here.

Anyway, my hat's off to those who can locate better schools based on the interview/visit. Cheers.

[Tobias]

Yes, those guys ARE known as recruiters, and that's why I was being facetious with the idea of being objective. One operating such a service would give objective advice regarding any school. Recruiters, naturally, are biased, meaning finding a job through one really is a crapshoot.

Would I use poster testimony to steer my way? Maybe. Maybe not. I think turnover at an outfit is a better indicator, meaning the frequency outfits must advertise for help matters more than what posters have to say. I'd avoid those schools that advertise a lot, of course, but I'd also look for numbers being hired in those adverts as well. For instance, if a school is looking to hire 10 teachers for the fall, I'd be suspicious. That outfit had better be starting a new program or expanding a program, or I probably wouldn't want to consider it. Will those 10 new hires be replacing 10 quitters at a school that has 12 E-2s? If "yes", I definitely would avoid that outfit like the plague. Replace a quitter today, BE a quitter tomorrow. That's a good, common-sense motto to live by in TESOL.

[aka Dave]

My current job I got through an interview, and it was really great because it was a University just 20 minutes away from the hagwon I was working at. It lasted nearly two hours, and turned out to be a "get to know each other" session. She obviously was a really commited, intelligent professor fluent in English, and I've helped (and been paid) on some of her research.

It's not always necessary, though. During that same job search I was offered a spot at Kwang-ju University via "only" a telephone interview (I don't remember if I asked for this or it just turned out that way).