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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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 Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:36 am Post subject: Fewer US teachers meeting new certification requirements? |
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My mother is having coffee with a few ladies from the neighborhood, all of whom used to be teachers. One of them made the comment that, thanks to "No Child Left Behind" she no longer holds enough certifications to teach special education classes as she used to.
Sounds like, according to her, the stricter certification requirements have created glut of jobs, but there aren't enough certified teachers to go around.
How does Korea expect to attract certified teachers from the USA if there aren't enough teachers here? |
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Atavistic
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: How totally stupid that Korean doesn't show in this area.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:59 am Post subject: |
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If she no longer holds a certificate to teach, than she either refused to continue her education or quit teaching a long time ago.
It's not hard to retain certification under NCLB if you're willing to do what teachers are supposed to do--continue learning. |
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A2Steve
Joined: 10 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: Fewer US teachers meeting new certification requirements |
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| bassexpander wrote: |
My mother is having coffee with a few ladies from the neighborhood, all of whom used to be teachers. One of them made the comment that, thanks to "No Child Left Behind" she no longer holds enough certifications to teach special education classes as she used to.
Sounds like, according to her, the stricter certification requirements have created glut of jobs, but there aren't enough certified teachers to go around.
How does Korea expect to attract certified teachers from the USA if there aren't enough teachers here? |
Because there is a high level of burnout with American teachers and the often insane hoops they have to jump through based on an overly rigid bureacratic history?
If they want American teachers, look at Teach For America. that's a program to place BA's w/o education degrees in low income schools in the USA. Like any good charity, they give the hard sell on the GREAT NEED in these areas, and how privileged a person is to get picked for it, blah blah blah.
Then you look at the stats, and see they only have 2,000 positions each year. And get 11,000 applicants, or more. So you have a pool of 9,000 eager beaver idealists on your hands. and probably a lot of the finalists.
The pay is just the basics for the first year teacher in the area. Compare that with the total savings you can make in Korea, or even other Asian countries. For the burned-out teachers in the USA, there are a lot of potential benefits for coming over, both short and long term levels. |
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the dakota kid
Joined: 20 Jul 2004
Location: Not in Seoul...
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:09 am Post subject: US teachers in Korea? |
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FWIW, I taught in the US for four years. I had five preps per day, thirty hours of teaching per week and I traveled to three different schools a day. Korea is definitely not the land of milk and honey, but compared to my US schedule, it is not that bad either.
tdk |
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jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| My nephew is going to be in 2nd grade next year and the school will be hiring a new teacher. I heard that over 260 people applied. Doesn't suggest much of a shortage. On the other hand, for a very long time (long before NCLB) there have been teacher shortages in certain areas and certain subjects. I believe that special education has long been one of the fields that have problems attracting enough teachers. In such fields, schools have long had to resort to using teachers who are not fully certified in those fields. NCLB requirements probably are making things very difficult in such fields. |
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Atavistic
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: How totally stupid that Korean doesn't show in this area.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| jaykimf wrote: |
| My nephew is going to be in 2nd grade next year and the school will be hiring a new teacher. I heard that over 260 people applied. Doesn't suggest much of a shortage. |
Depends on the state, but most states in the US DO have a teacher shortage. Midwest states with teacher colleges tend to be well-stocked. New York state, Minnesota, Ohio, and...Indiana I think are the ones that tend to have enough teachers, though around NYC that's not always the case. |
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Bigfeet
Joined: 29 May 2008
Location: Grrrrr.....
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| I think the real shortages are in special ed and math, maybe science. |
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the dakota kid
Joined: 20 Jul 2004
Location: Not in Seoul...
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: Teacher shortages |
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There will always be record numbers for applications. I remember when I helped to interview for my replacement. I asked one teacher if they liked kids and they said "no"....Some of them had lower quals than I did, others were over qualified for the position. There will always be shortages in foreign languages (my department), special ed, upper math and sciences. Social sciences, English, Phys Ed are well stocked, but the quality varies greatly...
fwiw,
tdk |
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jboney
Joined: 14 May 2008
Location: Northern Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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It wouldn't be that difficult to go and get the certification. They were probably just complaining about having to do that. The demand for teachers to be certified in their specific area is probably the only good thing with No Child Left Behind.
As far as demand, there will always be a need for teachers, and there will always be people willing to be teachers. Despite this, it's also up to what cities, states, and the federal gov't are willing to shell out to schools.
Here in NYC there's a demand for teachers, yet in schools where there is high demand, teachers are being excessed (not really fired because they're Union, but kept in the system and sent to other schools or made permanent subs) because there is not a sufficient budget to keep them. In Special Ed., ESL, and Bilingual Education there is a big demand, yet I know teachers from different schools getting cut because the schools don't have the budgets. |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Different problems and issues between teaching in the US and South Korea. |
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sojourner1
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Location: Where meggi swim and 2 wheeled tractors go sput put chug alugg pug pug
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: Fewer US teachers meeting new certification requirements |
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| A2Steve wrote: |
| bassexpander wrote: |
My mother is having coffee with a few ladies from the neighborhood, all of whom used to be teachers. One of them made the comment that, thanks to "No Child Left Behind" she no longer holds enough certifications to teach special education classes as she used to.
Sounds like, according to her, the stricter certification requirements have created glut of jobs, but there aren't enough certified teachers to go around.
How does Korea expect to attract certified teachers from the USA if there aren't enough teachers here? |
Because there is a high level of burnout with American teachers and the often insane hoops they have to jump through based on an overly rigid bureacratic history?
If they want American teachers, look at Teach For America. that's a program to place BA's w/o education degrees in low income schools in the USA. Like any good charity, they give the hard sell on the GREAT NEED in these areas, and how privileged a person is to get picked for it, blah blah blah.
Then you look at the stats, and see they only have 2,000 positions each year. And get 11,000 applicants, or more. So you have a pool of 9,000 eager beaver idealists on your hands. and probably a lot of the finalists.
The pay is just the basics for the first year teacher in the area. Compare that with the total savings you can make in Korea, or even other Asian countries. For the burned-out teachers in the USA, there are a lot of potential benefits for coming over, both short and long term levels. |
That Teach for America program is very very hard to get accepted into as it's considered to be prestigious as I tried for a year straight on that one with no response. Reports go out that there aren't enough teachers and then they won't sponsor and employ you when you do step up to the plate. America is plagued with rigid bureaucratic requirements (impossible hoops) to the point of being dysfunctional where a job advertised probably doesn't even exist as it's just PR. It's like this in most job markets today back there where they will report something like 98% of business school grads are getting great jobs when they are mostly employed as retail sales associates, substitute teachers, drivers, and coffee shop baristas; all for about $8/hour. It's like they say there is a glut of jobs in this sector or another and then no one is hiring for those positions and then it's reported there is still a glut of jobs. They say it's because there is a lack of qualified talant in the market, but that's crazy, because if they wanted all these graduates and others, they would give them a chance by hiring, training, and letting them be working professionals in their respective fields. Korea is employing unqualified college graduates now, but they become qualified when they get experience and then seek further professional development through taking an ESL certification and even a MA when they are serious in the long term. Korea is taking them on, because they are demanded for real jobs that actually exist.
Boeing Corp. will pay $100,000 to fly 50 candidates out to Seattle for an interview at a Hilton hotel and end up not hiring a single one; not a single one, but it's like a 1 in 1,000,000 chance you get picked when they do make a selection. And then they will let you go within 3 years when the project is finished. The government will tell you Peace Corp volunteers are in demand, but the corp is not doing much and if you ever called the main DC office, you get the most negative impression from them morons with bad attitudes sitting in office up there. It's the same situation with education as well. The government says a lot things... I went on a lot of advice and sayings, but it's crap deceptions our business leaders and government are putting out there in the media and career services offices. I think it's all propaganda to hide the real truth about our dismal state of affairs. |
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Fresh Prince
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: The glorious nation of Korea
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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Well said sojourner1 
I went to a job fair once and was told by one of the recruiters that they thought I was a great candidate but they weren't hiring until next year. I couldn't believe it. Not hiring but they have a booth at a job fair? I talked with them for awhile and they said that they were there to promote the company image, or something along those lines. The same thing happened when I worked for a company later on, we staffed a booth at a job fair but had no intention of hiring anyone. It was just to get a list of qualfied people in case we did later. |
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Sody
Joined: 14 May 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Yup, I agree with both of you regarding the advertising of employment. It's the same thing when I moved to Canada. They have a site called workopolis.com and half the jobs aren't even real on that site. It's just HR from each respective company scanning the market, keeping up with trends and checking out the applicant pools. Same thing with monster.com. |
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sojourner1
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Location: Where meggi swim and 2 wheeled tractors go sput put chug alugg pug pug
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Oh man, I spent thousands of hours going to job fairs and doing internet applications over the course of 15 years and it's a big waste of time. You've got to know someone to get in after you've qualified yourself through schooling, experience, and other preparations unless you're targeting a job market that actually has demand such as ESL. The Koreans don't play around like Americans when it comes to jobs as they want you yesterday. Where there's real genuine demand, you will get a job shortly after walking in the door if not on the spot when putting your best foot forward. Many times I was hired on in restaurants on the spot as well as in outdoor landscaping, bricklaying, retail sales, and gray cubicle computer data entry. My degree coupled with varied experiences and a broad range of knowledge means nothing at home. This is why my university was specifically international focused in it's curriculum as to give us ideas, skills, and knowledge to go work abroad. |
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A2Steve
Joined: 10 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:31 am Post subject: Re: Fewer US teachers meeting new certification requirements |
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| sojourner1 wrote: |
That Teach for America program is very very hard to get accepted into as it's considered to be prestigious as I tried for a year straight on that one with no response. Reports go out that there aren't enough teachers and then they won't sponsor and employ you when you do step up to the plate. America is plagued with rigid bureaucratic requirements (impossible hoops) to the point of being dysfunctional where a job advertised probably doesn't even exist as it's just PR. It's like this in most job markets today back there where they will report something like 98% of business school grads are getting great jobs when they are mostly employed as retail sales associates, substitute teachers, drivers, and coffee shop baristas; all for about $8/hour. It's like they say there is a glut of jobs in this sector or another and then no one is hiring for those positions and then it's reported there is still a glut of jobs. They say it's because there is a lack of qualified talant in the market, but that's crazy, because if they wanted all these graduates and others, they would give them a chance by hiring, training, and letting them be working professionals in their respective fields. Korea is employing unqualified college graduates now, but they become qualified when they get experience and then seek further professional development through taking an ESL certification and even a MA when they are serious in the long term. Korea is taking them on, because they are demanded for real jobs that actually exist.
Boeing Corp. will pay $100,000 to fly 50 candidates out to Seattle for an interview at a Hilton hotel and end up not hiring a single one; not a single one, but it's like a 1 in 1,000,000 chance you get picked when they do make a selection. And then they will let you go within 3 years when the project is finished. The government will tell you Peace Corp volunteers are in demand, but the corp is not doing much and if you ever called the main DC office, you get the most negative impression from them morons with bad attitudes sitting in office up there. It's the same situation with education as well. The government says a lot things... I went on a lot of advice and sayings, but it's crap deceptions our business leaders and government are putting out there in the media and career services offices. I think it's all propaganda to hide the real truth about our dismal state of affairs. |
I wasnt that impressed for TfA. sure, they have a high number to choose from. but even the recruiters themselves came off as pretty green and really no better than regurgitating the company line.
and if you google them, you can find a very interesting piece or three on one teacher's exp's in the new york wing of it. nice way NOT to at least back up one of your own.
and the kicker for me was, first I get the rejection, THEN they send another application, like they never heard of me before. I complaines A LOT and really let them have it. Did it have any impact on things? No, but sometimes rattling your sabre just feels good.
Needless to say, Korea has turned out to be a better overall experience on a number of levels, even beyond teaching matters. |
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