| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
 Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:49 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| jkelly80 wrote: |
| But regulating labor and safety standards is not libertarian. |
Who says?
Libertarians are primarily concerned with individual freedom. There is a great deal of wiggle room there. While most of us are fairly dogmatic, it is only the anarcho-capitalists who argue for fully zero regulation. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jkelly80 wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| jkelly80 wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| jkelly80 wrote: |
Gaaaaaaaagggh! No govermment! No fire department! No police department! No plumbing! No power lines! No phone lines! No roads! No garbage pickup!
Libertarianism and the 18th Century: They go hand in hand. |
Yeah, that's libertarianism. 
Edit: This article looks like it was written by some undergrad whose last reading was Plato's Republic. |
I've read a fair amount of literature from Cato and co. and that's what most of it boils down to. Everything is open for the free market. |
Funny. I've read Cato a lot, and I don't remember them investing a lot of energy in getting rid of basic infrastructure and fire/police services. Public garbage pickup may be another story . . . |
I've read David Boaz's Libertarianism, and had a subscription to Reason for 2 years.
One of my favorite bits from Boaz was his defense of child labor in the 18th and 19th centuries, citing the fact that it prolonged the life expectancy of the children from five to ten or eleven years of age. Boaz is executive vice president of Cato. There are more choice nuggets in this book, but I don't have them handy.
Whether or not their 'energy' goes to railing against public works and infrastructure, the basic ideology of the movement is predicated on the notion that the government should only provide for the 'safety' (a vaguer caveat exists, I'm sure, but I haven't seen one in a while) of its citizens, and leave everything else to vagaries and predations of the free market. How could this not include the privatization of roads, plumbing, etc? |
It seems to me like you're cherry-picking the most controversial aspects that some libertarians have chosen to advocate. These are not the best representations of libertarianism. But this is a tactic Ya-Ta also enjoys employing in his constant dismissals of libertarianism.
For me, libertarianism means limited market intervention, free trade, free rights, government accountability, fiscal conservatism, cosmopolitanism (understanding that China and the UAE are not threats, but trading partners), skepticism about what a government that runs on pork can accomplish, skepticism about excessive regulatory regimes, and a general attitude of independence.
You've just taken the most extreme positions that some libertarians have advocated and are using it as a way to redefine libertarians. This is precisely what Fox News has done with the word 'liberal.' |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Kuros wrote: |
You've just taken the most extreme positions that some libertarians have advocated and are using it as a way to redefine libertarians. This is precisely what Fox News has done with the word 'liberal.' |
I'm quoting from "Libertarianism: A Primer" written by an executive VP of one of the most prominent Libertarian think tanks. If Fox News starts to cite Brookings' senior researchers' 'extreme views' rather than blurbs from obscure professors at second tier universities, I'd agree with you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jkelly80 wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
You've just taken the most extreme positions that some libertarians have advocated and are using it as a way to redefine libertarians. This is precisely what Fox News has done with the word 'liberal.' |
I'm quoting from "Libertarianism: A Primer" written by an executive VP of one of the most prominent Libertarian think tanks. |
You didn't quote, you made a reference. Provide the quote? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Anyone with a name pronounced "Bahbb.Barrr" would earn my instant rejection. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
It seems to me like you're cherry-picking the most controversial aspects that some libertarians have chosen to advocate. These are not the best representations of libertarianism. But this is a tactic Ya-Ta also enjoys employing in his constant dismissals of libertarianism.
|
No surprise, but I disagree. Over time Kuros has made clear he's a moderate libertarian. I suspect some Libertarians would charge him with cherry-picking.
I don't feel responsible for keeping track of the infighting among libertarians for the right to define their group. As far as I'm concerned Libertarians are defined by their nationally known figures like Lyndon LaRouche and Ron Paul. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| mises wrote: |
| jkelly80 wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
You've just taken the most extreme positions that some libertarians have advocated and are using it as a way to redefine libertarians. This is precisely what Fox News has done with the word 'liberal.' |
I'm quoting from "Libertarianism: A Primer" written by an executive VP of one of the most prominent Libertarian think tanks. |
You didn't quote, you made a reference. Provide the quote? |
I'd have to get it out of the library. Or maybe google books. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| jkelly80 wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| jkelly80 wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
You've just taken the most extreme positions that some libertarians have advocated and are using it as a way to redefine libertarians. This is precisely what Fox News has done with the word 'liberal.' |
I'm quoting from "Libertarianism: A Primer" written by an executive VP of one of the most prominent Libertarian think tanks. |
You didn't quote, you made a reference. Provide the quote? |
I'd have to get it out of the library. Or maybe google books. |
Ah don't worry about it. We can assume that we won't agree. No sense in spending a few pages of posts coming to that conclusion. I'm somewhat drifting from the flock anyways. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
It seems to me like you're cherry-picking the most controversial aspects that some libertarians have chosen to advocate. These are not the best representations of libertarianism. But this is a tactic Ya-Ta also enjoys employing in his constant dismissals of libertarianism.
|
No surprise, but I disagree. Over time Kuros has made clear he's a moderate libertarian. I suspect some Libertarians would charge him with cherry-picking.
I don't feel responsible for keeping track of the infighting among libertarians for the right to define their group. As far as I'm concerned Libertarians are defined by their nationally known figures like Lyndon LaRouche and Ron Paul. |
Yata, you made this mistake before which more than anything shows that you know nothing about politics and can be completely dismissed.
Lyndon LaRouche ran repeatedly and was at most times a member of the DEMOCRATIC PARTY. The Larouchies won many Democrat primaries and ran in statewide elections as the nominees of the Democrat Party in several states including Illinois.
Lyndon LaRouche was NEVER a member or candidate for any libertarian group or Libertarian Party.
LaRouche is the perfect example of the crazy extremes inside the Democratic Party. He, infact, could be the prototypical Democrat, as he loves big government, regulation, socialism, lying about the issues, misleading the public, campaign finance and electoral fraud, and FDR. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
agentX
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Location: Jeolla province
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm loving it! Bob Barr is going to cost McCain the race, assuming McCain doesn't cost himself the race. He'll never win because he can't get enough low-info voters to even know his name let alone consider voting outside the red-blue paradigm. The polls seem to show that, but as time goes on, those numbers increase every day.
Barr, if he plays his cards right, will get votes. There are 3 types of conservatives; rich people, morons and people who think they're smart. Barr will attract the 'smarties' who are disgusted with McCain but unwilling to vote for Obama or just stay home. The morons will vote based on race, fear, and whom FOX news tells them to. The rich pretty much own McCain (via lobbyists and now fired Phil Gramm) so they're not leaving unless McTemper blows a gasket during a debate.
I really don't get the 3rd party mindset when it comes to running for president. Hitting a home run on the first at-bat might work in baseball, but elections aren't baseball. Get a few men on base (Congress) first before going for the long ball.
| Quote: |
| He, infact, could be the prototypical Democrat, as he loves big government, regulation, socialism, lying about the issues, misleading the public, campaign finance and electoral fraud, and FDR. |
That sounds more like Bush and Co than the Dems. Projecting, again? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| agentX wrote: |
| I'm loving it! Bob Barr is going to cost McCain the race, assuming McCain doesn't cost himself the race. ? |
If Obama doesn't pick Clinton as his VP, then it is likely going to be her supporters who will cost OBAMA the race... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
