Korean Job Discussion Forums

[jurassic82]

I was hoping to get spme feedback with people out there who have worked for both hogwans and public schools. I am in the process of looking for work and am thinking about making the jump to public school after working two years at two different hogwans. My first year was a nightmare. This last year though has been really good and I can say that I am fairly content with my job. The compant treats me well. I have gotten a few bonuses and of course I like the hours. I have gotten everything that has been promised to me in my contract like my health insurance and pension. The biggest thing for me is that I like the class sizes and the fact that I actually get to know my students.

I was wondering for those out there who work for public schools what is your normal day like and besides the vacation time how does it compare to a hogwan? Are there any of you out there that get bored with a public school and the large class sizes? I am just curious because I am considering it but am hesitant to entering a classroom where I don't feel like I am making much of an impact on the kids education. From what I have been told you only see the same kids once or twice a week so it makes it hard to see a lot of progress with them. Anyways, I know these are a lot of questions but any feedback would be appreciated.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

Search engine down again?

[Ruraljuror]

I teach at a private public elementary. Tomorrow is the last day until summer vacation. It is a half day. I will leave at noon. I won't step foot in my school again until Aug. 28th. There is no summer camp. And the vacation is paid.

Hagwon teachers start intensives soon. They will teach 10-12 hour days every day for the next month. They should *theoretically* make a bit of overtime for all of that teaching, but hagwon owners tend to prefer keeping the money, as opposed to dispersing it to employees. And they have lots of tricks to do so. And since the foreign teachers don't know nearly so many tricks to compel payment, it is often a bit of a mismatch.

Thus, you often hear grateful testimonials posted here from hagwon employees that their boss was a good guy, cuz he "always paid." I noticed in your OP you complimented your boss that he gave you "everything that has been promised" like "health insurance and pension." Wow. He is legally required by Korean Law to provide those things. And he signed a legal document promising to provide them. And the fact that he actually fulfilled that requirement is a pleasant surprise. I can't think of a more damning thing to say about the hagwon industry. How demeaning is it that you have to bust your ass every day, while hoping and praying that your "massa" is benevolent enough to give you what you are legally required to have? And god forbid that enrollment drops...or he gets in a fight with his wife...or you decide to find a new job, instead of signing a new contract with him...cuz then, the teeth come out, and he will take every single thing he can take from you while making your life a living hell. All you can really hope for in a hagwon job is a boss who's only going to screw you a little bit, not alot. But you will definitely get screwed to some degree.

At a hagwon job you work much more (public school teachers max out at 22 classes a week, most hagwons are 30-40), with more grading (I have never graded anything ever at my current job), and little to no vacation. The only way hagwons make sense is if they offer *significantly* more money than public schools. As in, AT LEAST 3 million for newbies. The free market is a bit messed up right now, because currently public schools and hagwons offer pretty much the same salary, which is laughable. Gradually, more and more teachers will be going with public schools instead of hogwans, which will result in hogwan wages rising to recruit teachers over public schools. At that point, this issue can be revisited.

But as for now, I would say that if you take the extreme outliers out of the equation (extremely poor public schools and extremely great hagwon jobs [and yes I realize some of you have extremely great hagwons jobs, but that's the point -- they are ATYPICAL. Your experiences are better than those that the typical hagwon applicant can reasonably expect...so don't bother correcting me about how great your job is...unless you just want to do it to just to brag a bit. But it isn't going to help the OP decide what to do to hear about a great hagwon job that he has no chance of getting...cuz it's already filled...by you.]) 99% of public school jobs are better than 99% of hagwon jobs, and it's not a close decision to have to make.

[Draz]

[sigmund]

The only things that I like about my public school job is I always get everything that I am entitled to and usually more, as in extra pay that I wasn't expecting.

I get long vacations. I did a winter camp and I will do a summer camp as well. I got a month and a half in winter off and I will get a month of this August/September. In addition to national holidays I got probably close to 15 random school holidays off, or about as much as most hogwans offer as vacation.

In some Koreans eyes a public school teacher is a little higher up in the food chain than a hogwan teachers. Though, it really isn't much.

The worst thing is you have to deal with 40 poorly behaved kids at a time, and the Korean public school system truly is a joke.

However, just like hogwans there can be big differences between public schools. Other than that pay is about the same. If you taught the same number of class hours in a public school, as in after school classes, a complete newb would make over three million.

[blackjack]

hagwons and public schools in in the greater seoul area generally have similar lengths of holidays (14 days ps/10 days hw), so unless you are planning on living outside of seoul/gyenggido (sp). Don't count on more holidays.

There are good PS and bad just as there are bad hagwons and good, but most hagwons and ps are average and people don't talk about those ones

Hagwons
pros
less school hours
smaller classes
co workers that speak english
every student has a book
more pay
better hours (2-5/6)
higher level students
students of equal grade

cons
greater teaching hours
co workers that speak english
intensives
afternoon/evening work (if you are a morning person)
less respect (I believe that depends more on the indivdual)
much greater chance of being ripped off

Public schools
Pros
potential for lots of holiday and overtime (don't count on it)
less teaching hours
co teacher
fall back support
less chance of being ripped off (still happens)

cons
big classes (40+)
often no text book
co teacher
early starts
lots of downtime
silly rules/meetings etc (imo)
kids of different levels in the same class
you often don't pick the school you get told

[Draz]

[sigmund]

Unless things have changed, GEPIK offers 14 working days of vacation, or almost three weeks. SMOE offers 21 working days of vacation so a month and a day off, plus 14 sick/mental health days, plus another two weeks if you re-sign.

I was offered a public school job using the GEPIK contract, but it wasn't part of the GEPIK program. That just has hassle written all over it. With GEPIK or SMOE you will have a representative and issues are taken care of pretty fair. Problems still occur, but I will count myself lucky as I haven't had any. When you work for SMOE your school isn't paying you, they are getting the money from the government. If I was employed by my school I am sure that they would want the sick days eliminated, but they don't write the contracts. There are other public schools that aren't part of these government programs. They are different. There are also people working at public schools but employed through a hogwan. They don't work for public schools, they work at a public school.

At least with SMOE, there are no classes January through Febuary and there are no classes end of July to end of Augusts. The Korean teachers don't come to school on those days and, if your school likes you, neither will you. That time isn't in your contract so if you don't get it don't bitch, it's a bonus. Everyone that I know got it. As for summer camps, for me, that time is not part of my vacation so instead working 44hrs for two weeks I will only be working 14 to 28 hrs; a bonus. I am also lucky in that I will be getting an extra 30,000 a day for working summer camps; not a crap load but I wasn't expecting anything.

P.S. I surf the net every day that I am at work. Some of the Korean teachers sleep.

[Draz]

[sigmund]

Like I said, all schools are different. With SMOE your contract trumps anything that the school says. If you used all of your vacation then you should work whatever camps are over the break; your vacation is done. Most people will only have to work two weeks of summer camp and then have two weeks off. In my case I have a month off with re-signing bonus so I can't do summer camps. That is that, the contract trumps what the schools says or wants. In my case I decided to work the summer camps and in turn start the next school year later in September instead of August, one month after summer camp ends.

If I hadn't renewed my contract I only would have had two weeks vacation instead of a month, but that would still be three extra days that weren't in my contract, plus all of the time I got off in winter, after a two week winter camp. Maybe my school is unusual but I live in a building of other SMOE teachers and they got roughly the same, though some had to teach more hours during camps then I did.

Vacation/time off, for me, is the absolute best part of public school jobs. It's what makes the other trade offs much more than worth it. But I know that I am not everybody, but I also know that I am far from the only one.

[BS.Dos.]

Public Schools are ace.

Hogwons are pants.

Do yourself a favour, dont arrive in Korea with your pants on your head.

[citizen erased]

i am looking for a new school and i am considering a public school



one thing i am curious about is: what happens if you want to quit or are fired? can you just go to a different public school?



if that is the case, it would be a definite advantage over hagwans.

[PigeonFart]

Many people come to Korea for fun....so for them the best place is often a Hogwon because you have many native English speakers to socialize with. That may not be everyones cup of tea, but i for one couldn't imagine working with just Koreans.

[Sody]

[PigeonFart]

yes, i stand corrected...most teachers are probably here for money. I guess i was being ego-centric and seeing the world through my eyes. Money is the last thing on my mind, and always has been.

Yes, i agree the culture isn't worth exploring that much....but i sure can tell you there's plenty of fun to be had every weekend. Also, Korea is a great location to go on weekend trips abroad every now and again.