Korean Job Discussion Forums

GoshiwonGuy · Joined: 31 Oct 2003

Hi All,

I'm a Newbie to Korea. I find out, and discover, new things every day.

I discovered from the moment that I landed that many Koreans associated with Hogwans are out and out liars. Lie to your face but expect you to be totally honest. Breach your contract but whenever they don't get what the want always say "It's in the contract. You must do...".

Anyways, I would like to compile a list of facts that might be a helpful resource for foreign teachers if they must resort to full-on war, or the full use of power politics (i.e. dirty pool) to get what they are legitimately owed by their hogwan.

Unfortunately, many, such as myself don't know the ins and outs yet.

For instance, when I signed my contract, I agreed to "one week paid vacation". Whatever that means in hindsight. A week is 5 days?, 7 days?
From researching, I've discovered that everyone by law is (at least in my situation, on a standard 1 year contract with a valid E2), entitled to 10 DAYS PAID VACATION per year. If I get gears (or continue to get them), this is just the sort of thing that I'd like to point out to my employer (and use against them, if possible).

This is the type of info I would like to publicise (sp). This and others such as basic, true facts relating to issues such as sick days permitted by law. Basically whatever we are entitled to by law but rarely are offered or informed about. Not the crap that the hogwans would have you believe.

And for anyone who wants to clamp down on me and say " You are an idiot. You signed the contract. You shouldn't make hay" I can only respond that "yes, I was ignorant, am occasionally stupid but should still be able to avail myself to minimum standards, set out in law, designed to protect ignorant, stupid people such as myself".

And if the hogwan doesn't honor their contract and tries to screw me I will resort to dirty pool involving immigration, the labour board, the tax office (newspapers, message boards, etc) or whomever.

Let's help each other a bit. Some of you were me and other me's will follow. I'll help them if I can.

Post personal stories or little know facts and it can be interesting as well as informative.

GG

Gord · Joined: 25 Feb 2003

canuckistan · Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 11:16 pm Post subject:

While still in your home country:

Don't EVER mail or give your original degree to any school or recruiter even if they demand it. A photocopy of your degree notarized by the nearest Korean consulate will do just fine. Courier your degree to the consulate and include a stamped, self-addressed envelope if you live far from one.

Once in Korea:

Don't EVER give your passport to your school even if they demand it. If they already have it, demand it back or just call your embassy and report it stolen by your school. A 5 minute call to your school from your embassy will put the fear of God into them. Shocked

It is the property of your government.

Don't EVER give your school your airticket if you've paid for it and have even been reimbursed for the first half. It's still your ticket, and if they haven't coughed up the money for your return trip to your home country (upon completion of your contract) then they have no business keeping it in the mean time.

ONLY give your Alien Registration Card (once you get it) to your school at the beginning of your contract to be registered for the National Health Plan. They need it for a few days only. If they aren't giving it back, tell them you'll call immigration and complain as you are supposed to have it with you at all times here.

rapier · Joined: 16 Feb 2003

The tendency for schools to keep hold of your certificates is dam annoying. The first hagwon that did that, I had to creep into the bosses office and reclaim them when he was out. He'd framed them! i put photocopies in their place, eventually he noticed but I wasn't about to give them back... my current school needed them to process the visa application I've asked for them back but deaf ears so far..if the time comes that I really need them I'll be straight on the phone to the labor board.

GoshiwonGuy · Joined: 31 Oct 2003

Gord · Joined: 25 Feb 2003

dominic · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Location: Seoul

Gord whats wrong with you man. The origianl poster has many many great points. You're the one who "missed the f***ing point, Ive never seen u agree with one poster on this board and ive been on this board for 4 years. Hogwans screw teachers everyday man and we do nothing about it. I pointed out to my boss that my contract says I start at 220 but my first day he told me to start at 130 and i said that's not what my contract says and he said tough sh*t, if u want to work here u follow the rules or ill fire you, and koreans deal with problems like this all the time and its a terrible way to "solve" problems. He thought he fixed the problem when really he just made me hate him more. Korean is "the old world" and the ones I know wouldnt last 2 mins in a western company. Their top-down authoriatian do as I say attitude is wearing thin on me, 6 months left, cant wait to tell me boss to F*** off and that i hope he burns in hell for treating his teaches so poory, maybe u like it here Gord, but I dont anymore, and I stopped liking it when i "learned" more. Koreans' business practices are primitive and outdated and down right nasty the way the think they get things done. I dont know why the think they need to be a pri*k to get things done and that they thing this is a new idea.

Gord · Joined: 25 Feb 2003

I'm not here to fight, Dominic, so I'm not going to bother with a personalized reply to your questionable post. Instead, I simply noted that the original poster wanted to start a thread about things that sometimes go wrong to people working in Korea.

Many such threads already exist. On top of that, the sole rallying cry of this thread was the vacation time he "researched". There was no research, just someone got a better deal than him. Great. I have a better deal than him and you, and there are probably people in Korea who have a better deal than me.

This is not a socialist industry where everyone does the exact same work and gets the exact same pay. Period end. But to start a thread about being angry that someone gets more vacation time than oneself and pretends that it is a crusade against all the evils of acadamy owners is dishonest.

canuckistan · Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 1:13 am Post subject:

prairieboy · Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Location: The batcave.

The 5.5 work week is not standard across the board. True, it was everywhere but there were still companies that only had a 5 day work week before the government started to change this. The banks now all operate on a 5 day work week.

My g/f has worked a 5 day work week for over 2 years she has been with her company. So to say that Korean operates on a 5.5 day work week is not entirely accurate, but it does cover almost every business in Korea.

If your employer won't give you your original diploma's, certificates or degrees that were used to process your visa application then mention to them that it is you property and since they have no right to possess it other than for the use it was intended, which has been completed, then they should return it or you will report them stolen to the nearest police station and turn it into a criminal matter. That should be enough to get your boss or recruiter to turn them over.

Right on the money about the passport and ARC. The passport is property of your government and if the school won't give it back then it is stolen and report it as such. And immigration requires you to have your ARC on your person all the time as they can ask to see it at any time. If you don't have it you may face a fine unless you've got an understanding officer that will let you go and get your ARC.

My contribution:

1) Don't sign a contract that has a utility or maintenance deposit required. In my case I paid a 600,000 won deposit and got back 283,000! Over half is gone. Why? I at least got a break down. about 130,000 for unpaid utilities - no problem. 160,000 for national pension? I don't understand this one since I only worked 3 days into a new month before I finished - no problem though as I'll get this back eventually. Almost 40,000 for NHIC! Again, I only worked 3 days before finishing and leaving the country. I returned to find out that when my contract had finished my insurance was technically cancelled - direct from NHIC but peanuts.

The point I'm trying to illustrate is that if you pay a deposit of any kind and you don't get a break down of what it was used for or if the charges are completely unreasonable, then in my opinion the hagwon has stolen money from you. The easiest way to stop this is don't sign a contract with a deposit requirement.

2) Don't sign a contract that says the income tax rate is 7%. This is not accurate. It's only around 4% depending on how much your salary is every month. If the school says it includes pension and medical then this should be reflected by separate deductions on your pay slip so you know exaclty where your money is supposed to be going (whether it gets there or not is a mystery that can be cleared up by contacting the tax office, NHIC and the National pension board).

Have your contract state explicitly that these deductions will be itemized on a pay slip every month and that the deductions will be made in accordance with each organizations requirements. As the deduction rates may change during your contract, you cannot have the percentage stated and expect it to be the same. I doubt your employer would pay the extra money to the tax office for instance if the income tax witholding rate were to increase, just to keep from breaching a contract; it's not reasonable.

3) If you are working at a hagwon with only 5 or fewer full-time employees, you don't have to pay National pension so be aware of this. If there are more than 5 full-time employees at your hagwon, your hagwon is required to enroll you and share the premium cost with you at least 50/50. If you're making 2.0 mill a month and paying 100,000 or more for pension then you are paying more than 50% of the premium cost and your employer is not paying their portion (if any at all).

4) Remember if you're a Canadian or a US citizen that you get your pension money refunded to you after you leave Korea for good. Also you get the share your employer is supposed to pay. You can apply for this refund before you leave or you can apply for it when you return to Canada or the US. If you apply here and check with the National Pension office, then you'll know if your employer has been paying their portion or not.

That's all I can contribute now.

Check out waterbaby's FAQ archive. There's alot of good information in there.

Cheers

GoshiwonGuy · Joined: 31 Oct 2003

mack the knife · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: standing right behind you...

If your contract stipulates a mon.-fri. workweek (they usually do), then your boss cannot presume to include sat. as a holiday, as Gord suggests.

Gord · Joined: 25 Feb 2003

matthewwoodford · Joined: 01 Oct 2003 Location: Location, location, location.

I guess this doesn't count for those who come here for one year only but any who opt to stay longer than a year ought to know they should forget about contracts. Like it or not, that's how it is and you will only cause yourself stress by wishing it were otherwise. The thing to do is compare the deal you're getting with what joe average teacher gets and see if you're ahead or not. Personally I'm happy if I get an afternoon shift, more than 2 mil. for less than 25 hours per week, accommodation close to the hagwon - anything else (including holiday in my case) is a bonus and anything more is a hassle.

The larger and more reputable the hagwon you work for the more likely they are to stick to the letter of the contract but the general attitude still creeps through and the contract may well contradict the law in some way too....In smaller hagwons it's down to the kind of relationship you have with the wonjang. And it's up to your negotiating skills what kind of deal you will get with him (or her if you're lucky) and changes in the situation mean renegotiation.

Like I said, that's just how it is. Call it cultural diversity. Smile

I know this doesn't help people coming here for the first time. Maybe it will be different in 5 years time...

Matt

schwa · Joined: 18 Jan 2003 Location: Yap

This thread has a nasty tone & the OP invited it with his provocative subject header -- guns ablazin'! going postal on those hagwon jerks! Hindsight is cheap & foresight was evidently lacking. Everyone who ends up with an unscrupulous director did their homework poorly. A good number of newcomers go way overboard nitpicking contract details & end up shi*tting in their own nest, souring otherwise workable situations. Gord's remarks are valid.