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None dare call it conspiracy. Do you?
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ontheway



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:59 am    Post subject: None dare call it conspiracy. Do you? Reply with quote
Pligganease wrote:
bacasper wrote:
Big_Bird wrote:
Who knows what happened on 9/11?


Good subtitle to that article:

Wide-ranging conspiracies do take place, whether you or I, or Charlie Brooker, are inclined to believe it or not


Better one:

Not everything on Planet Earth is a wide-ranging conspiracy and people who think everything on Planet Earth is orchestrated through a wide-ranging conspiracy are insane.

Just for curiosity's sake, what do you think about the following questions?


Was the moon landing faked?

Was Pearl Harbor allowed to happen?

Did aliens land at Area 51?

Were JFK,

RFK,

and JFK, Jr

all assassinated by numerous conspirators?

Did the royal family assassinate Diana?

Was 9/11 orchestrated by the US government?


So, what is it? Yes. No. Maybe. But. Fact or Fiction.

Where do you stand?
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ontheway



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Was the moon landing faked? NO

Was Pearl Harbor allowed to happen? NO, but there were people inside the government who knew war was imminent and expected an attack by the Japanese to come somewhere and at the very least did not act to prepare.

Did aliens land at Area 51? NO

Were JFK, NO (There is no evidence beyond Oswald)

RFK, MAYBE (needs more investigation. There are too many questions and the original investigation was botched, evidence lost or destroyed.)

and JFK, Jr NO

all assassinated by numerous conspirators?

Did the royal family assassinate Diana? NO

Was 9/11 orchestrated by the US government? NO (but we should investigate more to determine the cause of collapse, refute the nonsense, and actually do some engineering structural research of value.)
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Pligganease



Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ontheway wrote:
Was the moon landing faked? NO

Was Pearl Harbor allowed to happen? NO, but there were people inside the government who knew war was imminent and expected an attack by the Japanese to come somewhere and at the very least did not act to prepare.

Did aliens land at Area 51? NO

Were JFK, NO (There is no evidence beyond Oswald)

RFK, MAYBE (needs more investigation. There are too many questions and the original investigation was botched, evidence lost or destroyed.)

and JFK, Jr NO

all assassinated by numerous conspirators?

Did the royal family assassinate Diana? NO

Was 9/11 orchestrated by the US government? NO (but we should investigate more to determine the cause of collapse, refute the nonsense, and actually do some engineering structural research of value.)


Agree with this.

Still, it's pretty obvious that these questions are never going to be answered by the person to whom they were directed.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I know some people enjoy coming late to a party so they can make a grand entrance. Personally, if I'm late I always feel like I missed something.

That's the feeling I get from this thread.
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think one should go further and, regardless of a yes or no answer, also note what it would take you to change your NO to a YES or your YES to a NO.

ontheway wrote:
Was the moon landing faked? NO


No. However, if China or Japan sends a probe that overflies the landing sites and finds no evidence I would be forced to say YES.

Quote:
Was Pearl Harbor allowed to happen? NO


No. Pretty simple. A good verified document with Roosevelt's signature ordering a stand down for 1942.

Quote:
Did aliens land at Area 51? NO


No. We might mean Roswell here. Regardless. An alien body or some metal from another world.

Were JFK, NO (There is no evidence beyond Oswald)

Quote:
RFK, MAYBE (needs more investigation. There are too many questions and the original investigation was botched, evidence lost or destroyed.)

and JFK, Jr NO

all assassinated by numerous conspirators?


No. I think there are enough lone nuts out there that we don't have to invent entities until necessary. CSI like forensic evidence would convince me.

Quote:
Did the royal family assassinate Diana? NO


No. Someone steps forward and admits he killed Diana, some documents with the Queen's signature.

Quote:
Was 9/11 orchestrated by the US government? NO


No. Peer reviewed scientific evidence the buildings could not have been destroyed by planes. A few people in this MASSIVE conspiracy come forward.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
also note what it would take you to change your NO to a YES or your YES to a NO


For me, I would change my No to Yes if I became neurotically obsessed with this stuff and worked up a paranoid world view to explain how the world works.






PS: How did this thread escape the stickies?
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ya-ta Boy wrote:
PS: How did this thread escape the stickies?


I think it's a general discussion on conspiracy theories.

For a tinfoil hat conspiracy I have something called the DeAngelis-Novella Postulates:

Any ripping good conspiracy theory must fulfill three postulates. It must have three sides:

1) The evil side. These people have access to vast amounts of power, transcend governments, have access to superior science, command vast organizational structures, and yet also are in the habit of making primary mistakes so obvious any schlub ESL teacher can see the errors. For example, the moon is a dry lifeless world and yet Buzz Aldrin clearly has mud on his boots! So man never went to the moon.

2) The sheeple. The vast majority of the population have no idea about the conspiracy, keep their head down, and are being led like lambs to the slaughter.

3) The army of light. These are the people who have seen the truth. It is their sacred duty to expose the conspiracy and bring it down. Those who don't recognize the light of reason, when presented, are either part of the conspiracy or they're committed sheeple.

For example real conspiracies will always fail one or more of these postulates.
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ReeseDog



Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Location: Classified
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pligganease wrote:
ontheway wrote:
Was the moon landing faked? NO

Was Pearl Harbor allowed to happen? NO, but there were people inside the government who knew war was imminent and expected an attack by the Japanese to come somewhere and at the very least did not act to prepare.

Did aliens land at Area 51? NO

Were JFK, NO (There is no evidence beyond Oswald)

RFK, MAYBE (needs more investigation. There are too many questions and the original investigation was botched, evidence lost or destroyed.)

and JFK, Jr NO

all assassinated by numerous conspirators?

Did the royal family assassinate Diana? NO

Was 9/11 orchestrated by the US government? NO (but we should investigate more to determine the cause of collapse, refute the nonsense, and actually do some engineering structural research of value.)


Agree with this.

Still, it's pretty obvious that these questions are never going to be answered by the person to whom they were directed.


I agree, too. All of this is pretty solid.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
the DeAngelis-Novella Postulates


That pretty well sums it up. Who is/are DeAngelis and Novella?

My personal favorite part of conspiracies is the schlubs as you call them, figuring 'it' out. I think what impresses me most about them is the level of self-confidence. I'm always awed when someone who is not trained in an area sets up as an expert. I wish I had that kind of self-confidence. They remind me of high school sophomores who generally are experts on every topic in every field.

I'm duly impressed when someone has an opinion on ballistics, for example. All I know about ballistics is what I've come across in reading some true crime stories. I avoid discussing the topic with someone who also knows only what he read in a book about a crime written by someone who is not trained in it. It doesn't help when things like that get discussed as a string of hypotheticals. I get kind of dizzy when too many 'ifs' are linked together.