Korean Job Discussion Forums

[captain kirk]

Last day of regular classes was yesterday. Today was a schoolyard ceremony to start five weeks of classes-free bliss for the elem students.

Kcoteacher 1 (I have two) says I can go home this afternoon. It would usually be desksit hours 'til 4;40pm. I ask why? The Kteachers are going to another elementary school to study teaching methods.

Kcoteacher 1 is a pain in my side so I go downstairs and ask Kcoteacher 2. K2 says the Kteachers are going to a mountain tourism area two hours away and the trip has nothing to do with work, it's group R&R. K2 says the parents and students are to be told, if they should ask, that all the teachers are going to another elementary school to study teaching methods (what K1 said to me earlier).

I go upstairs and talk to K1 and ask why it is she felt it was necessary to lie to me about this? She says that it's Korean culture to lie when, if the truth were told, someone's feelings might be hurt. Or in the case where the subject is none of the askers concern. Which implies I'm not a Kteacher, not a real teacher, so what they do is none of my business. I therefore qualify as a lie recipient. Whoopie!

K2 told me the truth because she knows I wouldn't want to go with all the Kteachers for that long daytrip. Plus she's my junior. Plus she's not a bitch.

K1 is my junior in age, as well, but is supposedly my 'boss/minder' though I have 90% more experience teaching Eng than she does. I figure there are alot of reasons why K1 lied. I talk to her about it.

She says that it's Korean culture and 'her style' to lie about this. I say to her that, in Canada, if a person lies then past and future statements by them become suspect. Every kid in Canada knows not to lie. It will get them in serious trouble.

So I'm sitting there talking to Kcoteacher 1 and she's telling me this. It's ok in K culture to lie and it's her style. I say to her, please, in the future when she has a choice between lying or telling the truth choose the truth. She asks why? I say because I tell her the truth. And why would she lie in this case? If she told me about the mountain tourism area trip I could care less about not being invited and she knows this. We're fairly friendly and I could tell her some things about where she's headed this afternoon because I lived there for a year. And I tell her some stories about the historic sites, wildlife, etc. at the end of our talk before she went out the door to catch the bus with the rest of the Kteachers.

If Korean culture is so great, so noble, so ancient and full of integrity then it's surprising to me to hear K 1 saying that, in the future, she will lie if it suits her, to me. Because it's ok in K culture and it's her 'style'. I say to her that, in Canada, lying is left for really important things to cover up. If it's a bad situation with a bad person you can lie to them because the person is crap.

I didn't get around to asking her if she'd lie to the principal. I always like, to clear things up, to bring in the hierarchy-consciousness aspect to K culture;the pecking order explains everything. My guess is she would not lie to the principal but she can lie to me. Because, in her mind, I am her inferior. What am I going to do, bite her?

The thing is during the Summer break desksit hours she's five feet away from me. I'm sentenced to the desk and mentioned I'll study Korean. She is not sentenced to her desk, can go anywhere do anything it's her vacation, but says she'll be there, beside me, studying English. It's an opportunity for her to quiz me on Eng and get little 'free Eng lessons' response from me, right there, a convenient free resource.

Given that's her plan, and this recent 'lying incident', I really think there's something wrong with her brain. Yes, I'm perfectly aware there's some disrespect in her attitude towards me that empowers her to speak and behave the way she does. I root around and get the layout by probing her on this, getting the picture on her 'determined superiority'. BUT it's totally optional for me, coaching her in English when she's not even supposed to be there in the office, is on vacation.

So how can she act like such a craphead? And expect to get what she wants? This kind of thing has happened before. I've caught her lying, spin-doctoring, trying to create fear and insecurity to maniuplate, you name it. And I always shut her down. And she always keeps coming back. There are lulls of peace, we get along well, but it's like cobra and mongoose. Viper and eagle. It's kind of fun, actually. like playing chicken in dragsters running straight at each other. It almost inspires me to become unhappily married, almost.

Anyway, Koreans and lying. I think it's interesting that, where I come from, you lie you're shit. Bang, that's it. Everything you've said in the past or will say in the future is forever suspect from then on. In Korea it's more flexible. You can lie and there's no shame in it. The repercussion is minimal. Because everybody does it. So who can point a finger? Nobody. And, to Korean culture, it's absurd that anyone would make a fuss about a lie. Koreans have been lying since they were kids. It's like gambling. So much to gain, not much to lose, so do it! It's a competitive society, do it!
But never, never lie to your Chindo dog. Wife ok.

Anyway it pisses me off. The End.

[jangsalgida]

[Real Reality]

[Draz]

She is lying about not being sentenced to her desk. She wants you to think she is there by choice, when she is not, so she can lord her superior position and amazing work ethic over your poor enslaved head.

Just my guess. Is there going to be anyone else in the office for her to impress?

[fromtheuk]

I empathize, at least my co-teacher wouldn't say to me it's ok to lie.

Here are some thoughts. Since the last time my co-teacher lost it, we had an open discussion and it cleared the air.

Now we are civil, don't argue and most importantly she doesn't act like a control freak anymore. She has chilled out since I showed her proof the previous native teacher thought my co-teacher was 'a bit of a nightmare' to work with.

It shocked her. When we talked frankly to each other, I made it clear I know I am an assistant, but in my case I told her I simply wanted to know what she was asking of me in my lesson plans so I could deliver the goods.

I told her honestly I couldn't understand her English and I would ask her more questions in future to truly understand what she meant.

Try and get an idea about what your co-teacher wants from you. Then try to compromise in ways which don't degrade yourself, make your co-teacher a little happier/more reasonable, and you'll find life is less stressful for you.

All the best.

[Ya-ta Boy]

[captain kirk]

[captain kirk]

[captain kirk]

[Tobias]

Get the book on living here by a guy named Robert Kohls. Amazon has copies.

There are four rules to remember. Only four. These will take you far:

1. Face is everything.
2. Face is everything.
3. Face is everything.
4. Can't remember. Oh wait..... FACE IS EVERYTHING. That's it.

If lying saves someone's face, then the lie will be told, every time. Westerners don't really have a concept of this idea of face, really. Face puts a value on a person's worth against a sort of 'gold standard' ideal. It also helps a person maintain his status and esteem in society, something that is established at birth. No, Koreans don't believe that 'all men are created equal'. Nope. This is but an opinion held only by Americans and few others in the world. It's not held here.

There's a story in this book about a western white worker here who invited a Korean co-worker colleague into his apartment for some shit. Said Korean stole the host's prized pen during this visit, and whitey saw it go down. Host threw a bitch fit to their boss, as it WAS a prized pen. Who was at fault? To us, the Korean was obviously way in the wrong. But that's us. The boss viewed it as the HOST'S FAULT. Yeap. The host put a pen before a person, even though the Korean stole from the host. This pretty much destroyed the Korean's "face", which is a no-no here.

See rules 1-4 above.

[captain kirk]

[Tobias]

Glad I could help. Yeap, get the book and read all about the weirdness of this place. I will say that a person is more important than a pen, yes. However, a stable society is more important than a person. Thievery does not a stable society make.

I agree. What you see here you can see back in a place like the USA. You just have to look harder to find it, as western elites are much better at being subtle about who rules the roost.

All those working here now and in the future should read Kohl's book.

[KYC]

You get your panties twisted in a bunch over this? Not worth it. I've become so used to it. I would get upset about it for like 5 minutes and move on. HOWEVER, if I did something like this to them......

It'd be pretty much unforgivable. Funny isn't it??

[captain kirk]

[Whirlwind]

Sheesh, man. You need to get the hell out of there. I mean, look at all that you posted. She is messing with your mind, my man. Life is too short to have to deal with such psych games. Time to find another school.