Korean Job Discussion Forums

[JasonC]

On Monday, I was at a meeting at the Gyeonggi-do Office of Education when they announced a new program to attract more teachers. So, what do you guys think? I'm sure there will be a lot of people weighing in with positive and negative feedback here. My opinion is that there are a lot of good aspects to this program.

The GEPIK Internship Program:

Who qualifies?

Anyone who has finished 2 years toward their BA

or

Anyone who has graduated from a community college with a diploma. This would be the same for those who have graduated from 2 or 3 year college programs in Canada.

The benefits are the same as a regular contract (housing, flight, 50/50 insurance, pension, severance...) The hours are basically the same at 22 teaching hours per week. There are 14 days of paid vacation and all Korean holidays.

The part that is really different? The pay scale!

1.6 million to 1.8 million won per month.

1.6 million: Just a diploma or having finished 2 years toward a BA
1.7 million: Same as above plus 100 hour TESOL certificate or 1 year teaching experience
1.8 million: Same as above but 2 years teaching experience instead of 1

So, I'm sure that there are going to be a lot of people who complain that the pay is way too low or that it will be taking away jobs from those with a BA etc...

The way I look at it, someone considering doing it has to look at it differently. For someone in the middle of their BA, they may want to take a year off and save some money. For someone with only a college diploma, it's the only real way they can legally get to teach in Korea.

While the pay is much lower than the average these days, I have to remember back to my first year in Korea (1999) when I was making 1.5 million won and working every Saturday and my contract hours were 144/month. I don't feel too bad about this internship program! Back then, I had no clue, I was surprised when other people in my area were making 2 million or more. But, whatever, I still saved a pile of money and paid off lots of bills.

For a student, that's still an average of about $16-$20 per teaching hour. Most internships don't offer that. If they try hard enough, they can still put aside close to $1000 a month if they are intent on saving.

How about from the education standpoint? Do you think it's good to have people in the class with less than a BA? They will be with their Korean co-teachers. The way I see it, I think the main benefit will be for students to hear spoken English in a proper accent. Also, I think the interaction with someone from another country is a benefit for the students.

The majority of these positions will be in the harder to place areas in Gyeonggi province. So, the reality is having someone versus having nobody.

They are aiming to hire 330 people for this September. I think it's too late to attract any current uni students and the majority of those who would be taking up the positions would be community/vocational college grads.

So, what do you guys think? Is this a good move? Bad move? Good option for the teacher? Would you consider doing it if you were in a position where you couldn't obtain a regular teaching job?


Jason Cresswell
http://www.asknow.ca

[bassexpander]

This may be totally different elsewhere, but people with 2-year degrees back home get them in tech-type stuff like computers or other specific areas like cosmetology or something. They take those 2 year programs with specific local employment in mind. I just don't think there's a very big market of 2 year degree holders out there -- willing to relocate to Korea or not.

Some of those 2 year degree holders are planning to transfer to a larger school to finish a 4 year degree. I don't see many of them becoming interested in pulling up stakes to head to Korea in between.

There is a pretty massive teacher shortage in the USA right now. Unless Korea is willing to increase pay to above the 3.0 level for BA workers, I don't see many changes in the numbers of people coming here -- qualified or not.

Korea needs to start thinking of ways to pay people more, instead of ways to pay them less. I just don't see any dumbing-down or cutting of pay as being beneficial to Korea at this point. Cost of living has jumped up this past year, and people are still trying to find ways to hire more people while paying less? Don't take this personally, but some people need to get with the times.

I wish Korea would get its collective head out of its butt and begin teaching it's youngest students 1/2 in English -- beginning with preschool. As they grow older, adjust classes to fit their 1/2 English needs. After 12 years, Korea will have a fully implemented program for all ages. My MA/TESOL books are telling me that children around the age of 10 or below can pick up languages easily. After that, it's a waste of time without student interest and some serious dedication.

[JasonC]

Yeah, I agree. Most people have something specifically in mind when they take these programs. But, when I think of a lot of Canadian colleges, I know there are programs such as Child and Youth Worker, Social Work, Early Childhood Education, Journalism, Tourism and Travel, Personal Support Worker, Theatre Arts etc...

Those would all jump out at me as potential programs for people who woud be interested in coming over here. I know that there are lots of people who apply who are Psychology majors, Sociology majors, History majors etc...

I'm interested to see what happens with this program.

Jason

[TheUrbanMyth]

[tob55]

From my perspective as an "Educator," not an "Edutainer" for more than 29 years? BAD, BAD, BAD on all counts.

There are way too many issues to discuss in this thread, and the bottom line is this: Korea continually seeks ways to get more for less. The idea of hiring people with associate level education is nothing more or less than people with a system in place that provides no clue regarding what is a good or proper view of education at any level. Not to mention the myriad of additional problems that will surface by opening the doors to people who for whatever reason decided that an associate degree was good enough to get them through life as a professional.

I am not knocking people who do programs at an associate level, but as it has been mentioned, most people who do complete the associate degree (2 year degree), have plans to move on and improve on their academic future at some point in the future. This whole idea of bringing in those who's qualifications are two years of undergraduate work is idiocy IMHO. It makes the whole system looking like more of a joke than it already is.

The real question ought to be, who is coming up with these stupid ideas in the first place? Come on, it has been well documented by several posters through numerous threads on this forum why the English education system is flawed and doesn't work. Now some lame thinking high level official is coming up with another way to make the whole system look worse. You want quality, then demand quality. You want a poor system, then continue to do things like this. It's all about the perception that Koreans see their self better than those who come in as foreign workers. Tell me it isn't true, but if if isn't true, Koreans would not be treating people like s***.

[marlow]

[JasonC]

Interesting replies thus far.

To reply to UrbanMyth. You're right, it's certainly more expensive now than it was back then. But, I guess in the outlying areas, it won't be too bad...perhaps comparable to Daegu in 1999? That might be a bit of a stretch. Definitely not a good career salary, but for some people, perhaps a better opportunity to save money than they could back home. Or, perhaps some people would just want to come to say they lived abroad for a year and this is the only way they can do it and stay afloat financially. Different situation for everyone I guess.

As for the other questions, not sure if they do the rural bonus of 100,000 and 5 more days for these positions. I am guessing probably not, but would have to check.

As for farming out to hagwons, that's the first I've heard of it. They certainly didn't mention that at the meeting. If someone did do overtime, it's at 20,000/hour. As per normal GEPIK standards, the Internship contract states that "Employee may be asked to teach extra hours...Extra teaching should not exceed 6 hours per week without Employee's consent" So, they could teach up to 28 class hours per week, but that would be an extra 20,000 per hour and for anything above and beyond that, they'd have to agree to it (which I'm sure many people focused more on the money would be happy to do)

It will be interesting to see how it plays out in regards to the hierarchy with the pay being lower. I'm not sure how many people will actually know what the pay level is. In general, the majority of the people will agree with the average taxi driver and think teachers make a lot more than they actually do!

To Tob55: Thanks for the feedback from someone with lots of experience. I definitely hear what you're saying. I wonder though, in a situation with a school being in a rural area where it is all but certain that they are never going to be exposed to a native speaker, would you think having someone at an Associates level spending time with them in the target language would be a plus or a minus? Although the teaching skills may not be there, I would argue that even having someone read a story, say and repeat something, have a basic conversation, describe a picture, ask how the weather is and just be from a different country would have some benefit. I surely don't think that they could make the student any worse at speaking English! Sure, it diminishes the image of everyone else with higher education, but at the lowest levels (and the schools in these areas are going to be lower than average) even hanging out with English-speaking kids of their own age will have a benefit (perhaps even more one could argue). So, while they are not going to be teachers who know all of the ins and outs of language learning, they do know the language and they are the only chance that these students have of talking to a native speaker. That's the unfortunate reality of supply being much lower than demand in Korea. People can pick and choose where they want to go, and they aren't picking these 330 schools!

Thanks for the great discussion!

Jason
http://www.asknow.ca

[TheUrbanMyth]

[tob55]

With respect to you Jason, I understand that from a recruiter's position it's a placement and numbers game. Obviously, the more people coming, the more money to keep the current system operating the way it is. I also understand what you are saying about the rural locations. Yes there are areas of Korea that suffer greatly because for whatever reason most people coming like the urban areas like Seoul, Busan, Daegu, etc. However, knowing the language is not and should be equated with teaching the language in any way, shape or form.

One of the biggest slams against education in this country, or any other country for that matter is the consistent lessening of standards and a general dumbing down of curriculum and methodologies just to make people feel like they are actually learning. I know this is quite rhetorical, but I came to Korea in hopes of teaching. Fortunately for me I have found over the last several years that this is possible if a person is in the right place with the right supports and connections.

Replacing a system that is poorly guided already with another system that seriously looks as if it is based on economics is not moving in the right direction. I know people will attempt to justify the means to an end, but in terms of academics and providing people with positions that will allow them to do their work without feeling like they are Peace Corp volunteers, Korea needs to do itself a favor and get a clue about what is needed.

One more comment in this regard. IF foreign interests, i.e. recruiting companies had or have any part in this scheme to get people to come here, promising the world, without giving the real picture about what participants will actually experience, then they are just as guilty as the Korean government for allowing this sham to take place. This "New system" is only meant for one reason, to pad more pockets with money at the expense of people who have good intentions to help. IMHO

[JasonC]

Thanks for the link. The GEPIK program and the TALK program are run by different government bodies. I agree with you that a lot of times, people try to take advantage of a situation and get as much as they can out of their foreign teacher. However, anyone who would work at a hagwon for 6000 won an hour would be less than intelligent. The principal can't force someone to do this, it's against immigration regulations and I really don't think that it would happen. Out of the hundreds of schools, maybe a few principals might try to abuse their authority, but the teacher would simply have to say "no" and could contact either GEPIK or the immigration department should that not work.

Jason

[expat2001]

[Tobias]

Agree on all fronts. I'd guess a lot of these jobs will involve teaching at high schools out in the sticks. Read 'poor families'. Unfortunately, this means teaching students with very low ability and very low interest. Most of these students believe they will never use English, so don't bother to learn. This is the attitude they have always had and having a white face appear in the classroom will not change this view. The reason these jobs pay low is because the schools are "low performers" and can't pay any more.

The suckers who get drawn into this effort are in for a great time.

[JasonC]

To Tob55,

Thanks again for the feedback. I agree with you that a dumbing down of any system is never the answer. It is unfortunate that in many situations, we feel it necessary to bring everyone down to the lowest common denominator. It's like the intelligent kid in class who pretends to be dumb out of fear of being seen as better than the others. It's unfortunate that ability is a black mark in our current culture.

As for your last comment, I agree. It is going to be very revealing to see how honest recruiting companies are about this program. I really hope that people are straight up about it and let applicants know that a)they are going to be in less desired locations, b)they will be making much less than the majority of other teachers c)there may even be some bad feelings from other teachers currently in Korea.

But, as long as recruiters educate the applicants on the realities of what they are getting involved with, then if someone sees value in the position and they don't mind the location etc, then you have two parties coming to a mutual agreement, and that is fine by me.

Jason

[TheUrbanMyth]

[bassexpander]

I started my first hagwon nearly 7 years ago, and began at 2.2 million per month. The base at my uni job is 2.5. Since then, there has been quite a large increase in the cost of living, and now there is inflation. The Subway used to cost me 600 to 800 won on average. Now it's more. Taxis have raised their rates twice. Food is more expensive.

I'm lucky. The exchange rate has been to my benefit over the years, but that could end at any time. Other people from Canada, for example, have gotten screwed by exchange rates.

I know you're just fishing for good discussion to present some ideas, but if your intention is to go into some meeting with a way to help get more teachers here for less, then you're approaching this from the aspect of telling Koreans what they want to hear, rather than suggesting that they face reality.