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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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 Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| billybrobby wrote: |
| Hootsmon wrote: |
How long have you been studying for?
When I first came here, I was able to do anything I wanted in breaks at work and I was studying Korean, on my own, for up to four, five or even six hours a day. Everyone I knew was amazed at my swift progress. They were all predicting I'd be fluent in no time.
Sadly, it doesn't happen that way...at least, it didn't for me. After I had the basics, I hit this huge plateau, where I pretty much still am. I've been here for almost 2 years now. This huge plateau is when you hit the "conversational" level. A year ago, I could have conversations with Koreans. Now, I can have conversations. The only difference is that my conversations can be far more varied and my listening is much, much better.
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I'm pretty much the exact same way. I'm afraid there is a big plateau after you become really comfortable with conversation. What really plateaued was my motivation. With basic fluency, you can make friends, talk with coworkers, hit on girls, etc. What more do you need? Well, you need a lot more if you want to go to college, work your way up the corporate ladder in Korean, etc. But I don't really see myself doing that, so the motivation isn't there.
When you hit fluency, the way you learn becomes totally different, because you can learn through usage rather than books and brute force memorization. You can read novels, chat with friends, surf websites, etc. It's much nicer and much less like 'work'. But again, to reach a level where you can pretty much do anything that you want, you'll have to immerse yourself in Korean society, there's no learning it out of a textbook. I just don't have the motivation to hang out with Koreans all day. |
That's when it's probably best to switch to radio shows and documentaries about things you're interested in. They're all smarter than most Korean friends anyway, and you can turn them off when you want. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| rocketdolphin wrote: |
| PeteJB wrote: |
| The fluent word gets thrown around too often and it jars me somewhat. To be fluent, you have to speak better than even native Koreans. |
I too always wondered about the whole fluent thing when people tell me they are fluent in whatever.
Does it mean that they can hold a moderate level of conversation or do they actually speak the language as well as a native speaker?
Or maybe it's just the whole coolness factor of telling people that they're fluent in X number of languages. |
Luckily the word fluent simply means flowing, so you have etymology on your side if you define fluent as being able to do whatever you want with a language without any pauses to think about what you're saying. |
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rocketdolphin
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| rocketdolphin wrote: |
| PeteJB wrote: |
| The fluent word gets thrown around too often and it jars me somewhat. To be fluent, you have to speak better than even native Koreans. |
I too always wondered about the whole fluent thing when people tell me they are fluent in whatever.
Does it mean that they can hold a moderate level of conversation or do they actually speak the language as well as a native speaker?
Or maybe it's just the whole coolness factor of telling people that they're fluent in X number of languages. |
Luckily the word fluent simply means flowing, so you have etymology on your side if you define fluent as being able to do whatever you want with a language without any pauses to think about what you're saying. |
I guess the part I was thinking about was the accent. If someone could put sentences together perfectly and in a quick manner, but their accent made them incredibly difficult to understand, would you consider them fluent? |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| rocketdolphin wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
| rocketdolphin wrote: |
| PeteJB wrote: |
| The fluent word gets thrown around too often and it jars me somewhat. To be fluent, you have to speak better than even native Koreans. |
I too always wondered about the whole fluent thing when people tell me they are fluent in whatever.
Does it mean that they can hold a moderate level of conversation or do they actually speak the language as well as a native speaker?
Or maybe it's just the whole coolness factor of telling people that they're fluent in X number of languages. |
Luckily the word fluent simply means flowing, so you have etymology on your side if you define fluent as being able to do whatever you want with a language without any pauses to think about what you're saying. |
I guess the part I was thinking about was the accent. If someone could put sentences together perfectly and in a quick manner, but their accent made them incredibly difficult to understand, would you consider them fluent? |
Not if it was incredibly difficult to understand. Schwarzenegger-type accents though are fine. Considering that people have different accents even within their own countries I've always thought it odd when the bar for fluency is a perfectly neutral accent.
I also consider textbook English to be its own accent. Ever hear fluent Koreans (people that have spent a few years abroad and are generally quite well off) that sound like they should be on Arirang? It's perfectly easy to understand but there's something really grating about it. It's like English, minus a soul. |
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Atavistic
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: How totally stupid that Korean doesn't show in this area.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:39 am Post subject: |
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Incog, this doesn't directly answer your original question, but it's more a personal note about motivation.
I started keeping journals (or language exchanges, vocab I was learning, etc) when I first started studying Korean. They were helpful but sometimes it was hard to find something I needed in them. Eventually I switched to blogging about the Korean language.
(In you're interested in how it's set up... I blog about vocabulary (I just learned 배꼽 시게 yesterday, which is delightfully mostly useless) and grammar patterns. I also do short blogging entries about life, friends, etc in Korean. I'll also write longer entries about a trip I've done in Korean. A lot of times a single topic will spread over a few days. First up is my rough draft, then a draft after my boyfriend looks over it. My boyfriend is a bit sloppy with Korean grammar, so sometimes there's even a third draft after my lang. partner looks over it. I LIKE learning the hanja characters, so I also blog in mixed script sometimes. Sometimes I blog SMS or email exchanges with someone, other times cultural stuff. At first I wanted to ONLY blog in Korean, but for me that's just not possible.)
The thing I really like about my blog is that I can search it. That is very useful when I know I've learned some sort of grammar pattern but can't quite recall if it's a ㄴ or an ㄹ, or I know I read a word somewhere but can't recall the Korean... Also, I can look back at what I wrote in January and SEE growth even if I think/feel like I haven't made any.
As for my level, I can speak Korean with my boyfriend's mother a solid 75% of the time without needing help. Yesterday she called me and we chatted and I needed no help...which is good since I was at work (in America) and couldn't get any help! She knows NO English. Actually, scratch that. One day, she said "Goodbye, see you later." (And it shocked ALL of us in the house.)
For me, the Mother Test is a good benchmark to consider my level, but I don't worry about it much. Fretting about what level I'm at does nothing to change the level. Only studying and practice does. Worrying about plateauing won't really help you, either. |
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