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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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 Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:14 pm Post subject: The UK's 'tiny minority of extremists' |
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/2461830/Killing-for-religion-is-justified,-say-third-of-Muslim-students.html
Killing for religion is justified, say third of Muslim students
The survey found that extreme Islamist ideology has a profound influence on a significant minority of Muslims on campuses across the country.
40 per cent support the introduction of sharia into British law for Muslims
a third back the notion of a worldwide Islamic caliphate (state) based on sharia law
40 per feel it is unacceptable for Muslim men and women to mix freely
24 per cent do not think men and women are equal in the eyes of Allah
a quarter have little or no respect for homosexuals.
Although 53 per cent said that killing in the name of religion was never justified, compared with 94 per cent of non-Muslims, 32 per cent said that it was. Of these, 4 per cent said killing could be justified to "promote or preserve" religion, while 28 per cent said it was acceptable if that religion were under attack.
The idea that extremists positions in the Islamic community are supported by only a 'tiny minority of extremists' needs to be dismissed once and for all. |
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PigeonFart
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:36 am Post subject: |
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agreed...let's keep in mind what's currently happening in Turkey with all the headscarf/islamism/secularism battle.
I don't want to see Turkey join the EU, but i do want it to do well because it's smart enough to take Religion (especially Islam) out of politics. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:05 am Post subject: Re: The UK's 'tiny minority of extremists' |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| Killing for religion is justified, say third of Muslim students |
One wonders what percent of Irish Catholics would have said the same thing 20 or 30 years ago. |
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PigeonFart
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:56 am Post subject: |
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I'm sure you're not just referring to the Catholics of Northern Ireland, but to the Protestant community too (aka Loyalist/Unionist).
Anyway, even an outsider (as a native of Luxemburg myself i can safely say i'm an outsider on this topic) knows that that particular period of "troubles" was not based on Religious issues. Before you say "WTF? Not based on Religion?" let me explain....
What i mean is, the Protestants weren't saying "I want you to die because of your blasphemous idolotry" and im sure the Catholics weren't saying "I want you to die because you don't believe in the Trinity."
If a moderate percentage of each community believed that killing a member of the other group was acceptable....it was because of nationalistic/tribal reasons....."Those scum bags killed my cousin" type of thing.
The religion only identifies the two tribes. I've never been to Northern Ireland, but i've heard it's actually quite a secular place...the religion (for both Protestant and Catholic) is only a tribal badge. Like most European countries....Religion is not taken that seriously, people are only "Cultural" Christians. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| PigeonFart wrote: |
What i mean is, the Protestants weren't saying "I want you to die because of your blasphemous idolotry" and im sure the Catholics weren't saying "I want you to die because you don't believe in the Trinity." |
Exactly. I lived some years in Northern Ireland, through the troubles, and I can say differences in actual religious beliefs were virtually irrelevant to the conflict there. It was about the economy and nationalism. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:58 am Post subject: |
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It doesn't matter. I doubt huffdaddy even believes what he is suggesting. But for the multicultural and modern liberal project to survive then cultures/peoples must be equal. Any differences are the result of poverty or imperialism (both the fault of white, hetro, males). Anything less is a fatal blow.
The UK will learn the hard way that immigration + islam = disaster. She won't be the only country to figure this out. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:57 am Post subject: |
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| PigeonFart wrote: |
| If a moderate percentage of each community believed that killing a member of the other group was acceptable....it was because of nationalistic/tribal reasons....."Those scum bags killed my cousin" type of thing. |
Maybe blowback applies to the Muslims as well. Didn't mises believe in that in his previous incarnation?
| nautilus wrote: |
| Exactly. I lived some years in Northern Ireland, through the troubles, and I can say differences in actual religious beliefs were virtually irrelevant to the conflict there. It was about the economy and nationalism. |
I'm sure that puts the hundreds of people who died in IRA bombings at ease. The question is, what percentage of the Irish believed the killings were justified?
| mises wrote: |
| I doubt huffdaddy even believes what he is suggesting. |
What am I suggesting? That maybe Irish-Catholics had an equally odious belief that terrorism was "justified"?
| Quote: |
| The UK will learn the hard way that immigration + islam = disaster. She won't be the only country to figure this out. |
What is it, 9 months until riots overwhelm Europe? Is that where our countdown is? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:12 am Post subject: |
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mondo pita!!
Last edited by mises on Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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PigeonFart
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:16 am Post subject: |
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Why did you mention the IRA and yet fail to mention the UVF and UFF (Loyalist/Unionist terrorist groups responsible for just as many bombings, shootings, and beatings).
I had a very good politics teacher in High school in Luxemburg so i enjoy talking about this...even though it will divert from the orignal post by Bigverne.
What percentage of British thought 'Internment without trial' was perfectly acceptable? What percentage of British thought Loyalist bombings and murders were an acceptable defence of the "crown"?
If one of your family were murdered by the IRA then i can understand your feelings. I do not want to bring back bad feeling for you. If that is the case, i hope your wounds are healing.
But what are your views on the Original Post...islam/uk/extremist views? |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Italy is leading they way by demolishing a mosque and naming the new park built on the land Oriana Fallaci Square. muslims cried "islamophobia" and nobody gave a shit. Somebody should teach them about The Boy Who Cried Wolf. Nobody cares anymore. |
And the riots that ensued? Tell us about the riots. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:20 am Post subject: |
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No flame wars for me.
Last edited by mises on Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:23 am Post subject: |
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No flame wars for me.
Last edited by mises on Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| PigeonFart wrote: |
| What percentage of British thought 'Internment without trial' was perfectly acceptable? What percentage of British thought Loyalist bombings and murders were an acceptable defence of the "crown"? |
Perfectly valid and reasonable questions. I have no answer though.
| Quote: |
| But what are your views on the Original Post...islam/uk/extremist views? |
The Pew Studies in America show that, by and large, Muslims are as "assimilated" or even more "assimilated" than fundamentalist Christians. Without a comparison cohort, the numbers provided by bigverne have little meaning. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:27 am Post subject: |
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No flame wars for me.
Last edited by mises on Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:58 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| The muslims in Europe are quite different than those in the United States. In addition, Europe is quite a bit different than the United States. |
So Muslim immigration can work? |
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