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makemischief
Joined: 04 Nov 2005
Location: Traveling
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 Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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very true Kuros- barr could pull a nader on mccain, and i'd love it if he did.
3rd parties can affect the process, in the same way other powerful groups can, but they cannot themselves win within it (and by win i mean become president). |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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Ron Paul was the 2nd most favorite candidate on facebook's election application. He raised the most money in one day (19 mill ish) He's had the most donations from active duty soldiers
He didn't get much media coverage.
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Condensed version: The majority of his supporters live on the internet. 92% of his most sympathetic audience think a headlong rush into the 19th Century is not their cup of tea. |
Oh well.
His primary economic point was that the US is up to her ears in debt. The aggregate debt of the US (fed/state/muni gov and consumer debt including mortgages and corporate debt) is 45 trillion. Add in medicare/Medicaid/ss liabilities and she is almost at 90 trillion. The global derivative market is about 500 trillion now. American credit default swaps are at 62 trillion. This is unsustainable. 19th century or not. There is no sense even talking about social programs and the like when that much debt/contracts are out there. Eventually, the system will fail. |
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Shauneyz
Joined: 26 May 2008
Location: The land of Nod
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
Third-party candidates may not be able to hold territory on the electoral map, but they can play spoiler. Bob Barr can tear asunder the a corner of the libertarian-authoritarian-religious right GOP alliance and cost McCain a few % points in a close race with Obama. Disaffected voters can become enthusiastic about third-party candidates, and the main parties may have to respond to their positions to keep their voters. |
This was my idealistic viewpoint in the '04 election.
The result? ...I wish I submitted a write-in ballot for Mickey Mouse. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Dev wrote: |
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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| I mean, you have only two parties. |
Actually, we have about 45 parties. Here are the ones who have already nominated a presidential candidate.
1 Boston Tea Party
2 Constitution Party
3 Green Party
4 Libertarian Party
5 Party for Socialism and Liberation
6 Prohibition Party
7 Socialist Party USA
8 Socialist Workers Party
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| Do yourselves a favour? What happened to Ron Paul? |
The voters took a look at him and 92% saw him and his ideas as too foolish to pay attention to. |
Sorry. I meant two parties that stand a chance at winning the election. They spend so much money promoting themselves on TV, that the other parties aren't taken seriously by the American public. This is what I meant.
The situation is not much better in Canada where there are 3 political parties that are considered serious contenders. The problem is that Canadian comedy programs try to marginalize the 3 rd party, known as the NDP, which is more socialist and anti-corporate. . |
As well they should. The NDP had a shot at power once before...they were running Ontario. In five short years they TRIPLED Ontario's deficit. Nice work guys. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:14 am Post subject: |
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| There is no sense even talking about social programs and the like when that much debt/contracts are out there. |
Which is exactly what Reagan's budget director (David Stockman) said the plan was back in the 80's. I've never said that Republicans aren't good at achieving their goal. It's just that their goal was/is so destructive. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:21 am Post subject: |
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Sure, blame whoever you want. I'd blame the people who designed the systems (medicare/ade/ss) without building a SWF to pay for them. Then blame the post/pre-Volker Fed chairman for going crazy with the printing press. Then blame democracy for the battle between those who want less taxes yet more programs and fiscal reality smoothed over by huge debt.
Who you blame doesn't matter. Blame Santa. It doesn't change anything. Ron Paul was right. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:58 am Post subject: |
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I'm giving credit where it is due.
The last time RP was right was when he endorsed John C. Calhoun's South Carolina Exposition in favor of nullification in 1832. |
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Vancouver
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| rocketdolphin wrote: |
| Cheonmunka wrote: |
| He doesn't seem to be one who will start a big war or push nuke buttons. I don't get that feeling with other pressies that came before like that crooked-eye evil-looking dude elected in '89 and who started the whole Iraq thing off. |
He said he wanted to send even more troops to Afghanistan and Pakistan. |
not only that. He also said he'd order a strike on Pakistan (terroist occupied areas) if they were unwilling or unable to help fight terrorists hiding in their country |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| He also said he'd order a strike on Pakistan |
Are you saying that if one of our right-wing nuts living in Montana got it into his head to sneak across the border and blow up a school bus in Manitoba and then slip back south of the border that you would tolerate him shouting, "King's X. You can't get me!"?
If murderous thugs cross a border to commit mayhem, they have no right to suddenly demand others respect the sanctity of international borders. |
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Cheonmunka
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| That's interesting about the change of focus for the Fight on Terrorism. Maybe it will put a quick end to it? |
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shifter2009
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Location: wisconsin
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Howard Dean got jobbed too. The internet is a clear indicator of real popularity. Snakes on a Plane is a sure fire blockbuster. |
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Vancouver
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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| He also said he'd order a strike on Pakistan |
Are you saying that if one of our right-wing nuts living in Montana got it into his head to sneak across the border and blow up a school bus in Manitoba and then slip back south of the border that you would tolerate him shouting, "King's X. You can't get me!"?
If murderous thugs cross a border to commit mayhem, they have no right to suddenly demand others respect the sanctity of international borders. |
sorry, i forgot one part. He saidi he'd launch a strike if he had intel on al qaeda presence in pakistan and if the paki gov was unwilling or unable to help deal with them. |
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rocketdolphin
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Vancouver wrote: |
| rocketdolphin wrote: |
He said he wanted to send even more troops to Afghanistan and Pakistan. |
not only that. He also said he'd order a strike on Pakistan (terroist occupied areas) if they were unwilling or unable to help fight terrorists hiding in their country |
LOL, I just read that he paid Blackwater to drive him around during his little trip.
| Quote: |
Blackwater Got the Gig Securing Obama in Afghanistan
July 25, 2008 05:00 PM ET | Paul Bedard | Permanent Link
Sen. Barack Obama has not been a fan of private police like Blackwater in war zones, and some news outlets even reported that they were spurned for his trip last week to Afghanistan and Iraq. But Whispers confirms that Blackwater did handle the Democratic presidential candidate's security in Afghanistan and helped out in Iraq. What's more, Obama was overheard saying: "Blackwater is getting a bad rap." Since everything appeared to go swimmingly, maybe he will take firms like Blackwater out of his sights, the company's supporters hope.
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Don Gately
Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Location: In a basement taking a severe beating
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:40 pm Post subject: Re: Obama? Big Con |
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| slideaway77 wrote: |
| Hate to say it Yanks but this guy reminds me of Tony Blair before he got in. Everything for everybody. Do yourselves a favour? What happened to Ron Paul? |
Thanks for letting me know. I'll be sure to base my vote on your valuable insights. |
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Vancouver
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
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