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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:02 am Post subject: |
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For anyone curious, drop me a line. I'll be in China tomorrow. Dae Han Min Guk is over for me. Captain Kirk, send me a note dude. (One of the best posters.)
(no, not gay)
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: China: Not the Next Korea After All? |
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| cdninkorea wrote: |
The Real Bottom of the Barrel: ESL Teacher Wages
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Hong Kong: 25,000.00 HKD (3,205.65 USD)
Japan: 250,000.00 JPY (2,323.41 USD)
South Korea: 2,300,000 WON (2,205.00 USD)
Vietnam: 21,857,550.00 (1,300.00 USD)
Taiwan: 35,000.00 TWD (1,151.478 USD)
Indonesia 9,500,000.00 IDR (1,026.48 USD)
Thailand: 33,000 BAHT (1,000.00 USD)
Malaysia 3,500.00 MYR (1,071.50 USD)
Mongolia 1,100,000.00 MNT (948.20 USD)
China: 6,000.00 RMB (874.848 USD) |
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Great list. Taiwan has REALLY went downhill! 12 years ago, Korea was also the same as Taiwan, but salaries/wages always go up in Korea, and Taiwan they NEVER did. Amazing. |
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Matty
Joined: 13 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, I live in China.
4,000 RMB in Beijing is a joke, I'd ignore the school and look for another.
4,000 RMB is maybe acceptable in a very small city, or if you work low hours.
The average wage in Harbin (10th largest city in China) is 5,000 with free accommodation.
Here is what to know, 99% of Chinese will try and get the naive foreigner to sign a very low wage and high hours. They will always use tactics such as saying how hard it is to process the visa and you wouldn't believe how difficult it is...
This gets you in a rush and worried so you will sign faster. (Yes, it works)
Always remember there is more demand for teachers than there are teachers, when ever a business approaches me and wants me to work and I say no, I'm not interested, they ask me if it's because the money is too low.
It's a game of balance, who can bend the other party the most without snapping them. Be firm but a little flexible.
Make sure if the contract mentions training, it mentions exactly when and how many hours and payment if outside some guidelines. (Training has been known to resemble "EXACTLY" a classroom scenario with students and all [hope you got that])
Over time rates, etc.
Make sure the contract doesn't say that you can't have private students.
For a private student you can earn 100-300 RMB per hour depending on how good you are, how rich they are and location.
I do part time work for one company right now, I get a base 120 RMB per hour and 150 RMB if the students are more than 40 or so. (I have a very casual relationship with this company, nothing too stressful).
So take these notes into consideration.
You should easily get 6,000+ per month in Beijing (easy - shop around for higher), plus you can make extra from private students. (this I believe is 100% legal as long as your contract doesn't say otherwise)
But make sure you're provided with the correct VISAs etc.
Don't let them push you around too much, but always be polite.
Remember you're the rare resource, not them.
University work is always the best, but then again the hardest to get.
If you have a little cash it might be worth being a student for a few months first (living is pretty cheap). Get a feel for the culture and such and a taste of Chinese negotiating, job shopping can often be alot similar to normal shopping and take alot of negotiating, only this time you're trying to up the price, not them. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Koreans have a peculiar desire for English that totally passes all economic necessity. I don't know if this kind of fervor will be maintained in a very confident China. |
I noticed that when I've visited China as well.
VERY apparent here in Japan. People here in Japan, will ALWAYS speak to you in Japanese everytime. Their motivation for English is real low and while some are interested, most are not.
In Korea, it seemed like I ALWAYS met people all the time who desired to practice English, and dreamed of being good at English. Even little old men who had no reason to speak or learn English, felt obligated to learn it just in case a foreigner came into their store. It was near ridiculous how motivated and eager Koreans are, and how much money they are willing to spend for it. |
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DCJames
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
In my opinion, the Chinese don't need to learn English, and their people know this.
Korea is a completely different scenario. Korea doesn't have the population and resources to make businesses go out of their way.
The Chinese can simply say, "We have cheap labor, cheap materials, and gigantic population. If you want to do business then Ni Hao mo-fo." |
You're completely wrong. |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:08 pm Post subject: Re: China: Not the Next Korea After All? |
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| cdninkorea wrote: |
Like many on this board, I'm constantly thinking about my next move in my EFL career. It's going to be a few years because I want to finish my MEd first, but it's still an obsession of mine.
I was putting some serious thought about China. Until I started looking around the China board and saw these:
Reasonable Wage for Uni Level
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| 4,000 for 12 hours is pretty good for a uni. |
(4,000 RMB= 593,755 Won)
Teachers Complaining About Salaries
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| I think China offers a pretty good lifestyle overall but not a great deal of opportunity for saving. |
Cheap Cities to Teach/Live In
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| 99.9% of old china has been knocked down and turned into some concrete eyesore. |
The Real Bottom of the Barrel: ESL Teacher Wages
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Hong Kong: 25,000.00 HKD (3,205.65 USD)
Japan: 250,000.00 JPY (2,323.41 USD)
South Korea: 2,300,000 WON (2,205.00 USD)
Vietnam: 21,857,550.00 (1,300.00 USD)
Taiwan: 35,000.00 TWD (1,151.478 USD)
Indonesia 9,500,000.00 IDR (1,026.48 USD)
Thailand: 33,000 BAHT (1,000.00 USD)
Malaysia 3,500.00 MYR (1,071.50 USD)
Mongolia 1,100,000.00 MNT (948.20 USD)
China: 6,000.00 RMB (874.848 USD) |
Wages Are a Joke
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| I talked to a uni in Beijing that offered me 4000 rmb a month. |
Do any universities in Korea offer a measly 593,755 Won?
From the same thread:
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I've been saying this for years and years. ESL in China was crap from day one.
I've seen some of the best and most talented earn pauper's wages,and degreeless poor speakers of English earn more. |
Some people on this board talk about China like it's The Next Korea.
It seems it's still better for dating, but the pay seems to be significantly less than here.
What does everyone think? |
Your statistics seem that to suggest that Vietnam is the next South Korea. |
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nicholas_chiasson
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Location: Samcheok
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Why the hell would anyone want another Korea? |
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cosmicgirlie
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:55 am Post subject: |
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Vietnam is not the next Korea--it is however, a rising industrial manufacturing nation--hence lots of jobs will be leaving China for there--hence my husband and I will be looking into that country in a few years.
Brazil is next on the list for major oil producing nation--so that's the other country we're looking into. Forget the middle east as an area to make money as an ESLer--Brazil will be booming in a few years--mark my words.
Get out of Korea soon--ifyou want to make serious cash.[/quote] |
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Guri Guy
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: Bamboo Island
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:24 am Post subject: |
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That's good to know thanks Cosmicgirlie.
I have been considering Vietnam for a few years now. South America would be awesome as well if there was real money to be made.
So whether anyone loves South Korea or not, this is good news.
Competition always is.  |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| cosmicgirlie wrote: |
Vietnam is not the next Korea--it is however, a rising industrial manufacturing nation--hence lots of jobs will be leaving China for there--hence my husband and I will be looking into that country in a few years.
Brazil is next on the list for major oil producing nation--so that's the other country we're looking into. Forget the middle east as an area to make money as an ESLer--Brazil will be booming in a few years--mark my words.
Get out of Korea soon--ifyou want to make serious cash. |
[/quote]
One year ago, I actually had the opportunity to teach at an international school in Ho Chi Minh City with a salary on the same scale as in Korea. Regrettably, I turned the job down in favor of working at an international school in Korea. |
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maddog
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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Well, that's China official struck from my list. And Taiwan. I'm shocked that Taiwan pays such sh!te salaries. If those stats are even remotely correct, I'm either staying here, or going back to Vietnam.
Apart from an abundance of women, I've never heard anything truly positive about China. I b!tch about Korea as much as anyone else. But at least here, we're making good money.
As for Japan. The salary is more-or-less the same, you have to pay your own rent, and the cost of living is much higher.
MD |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:14 pm Post subject: Re: China: Not the Next Korea After All? |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| cdninkorea wrote: |
The Real Bottom of the Barrel: ESL Teacher Wages
| Quote: |
Hong Kong: 25,000.00 HKD (3,205.65 USD)
Japan: 250,000.00 JPY (2,323.41 USD)
South Korea: 2,300,000 WON (2,205.00 USD)
Vietnam: 21,857,550.00 (1,300.00 USD)
Taiwan: 35,000.00 TWD (1,151.478 USD)
Indonesia 9,500,000.00 IDR (1,026.48 USD)
Thailand: 33,000 BAHT (1,000.00 USD)
Malaysia 3,500.00 MYR (1,071.50 USD)
Mongolia 1,100,000.00 MNT (948.20 USD)
China: 6,000.00 RMB (874.848 USD) |
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Great list. Taiwan has REALLY went downhill! 12 years ago, Korea was also the same as Taiwan, but salaries/wages always go up in Korea, and Taiwan they NEVER did. Amazing. |
A quick scan of Dave's job postings (here, here, here, and here)suggests that it's still very possible to get an EFL job in Taiwan making about $60,000NTD/$2000 USD per month, if not more. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:32 pm Post subject: Re: China: Not the Next Korea After All? |
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| Son Deureo! wrote: |
| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| cdninkorea wrote: |
The Real Bottom of the Barrel: ESL Teacher Wages
| Quote: |
Hong Kong: 25,000.00 HKD (3,205.65 USD)
Japan: 250,000.00 JPY (2,323.41 USD)
South Korea: 2,300,000 WON (2,205.00 USD)
Vietnam: 21,857,550.00 (1,300.00 USD)
Taiwan: 35,000.00 TWD (1,151.478 USD)
Indonesia 9,500,000.00 IDR (1,026.48 USD)
Thailand: 33,000 BAHT (1,000.00 USD)
Malaysia 3,500.00 MYR (1,071.50 USD)
Mongolia 1,100,000.00 MNT (948.20 USD)
China: 6,000.00 RMB (874.848 USD) |
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Great list. Taiwan has REALLY went downhill! 12 years ago, Korea was also the same as Taiwan, but salaries/wages always go up in Korea, and Taiwan they NEVER did. Amazing. |
A quick scan of Dave's job postings (here, here, here, and here)suggests that it's still very possible to get an EFL job in Taiwan making about $60,000NTD/$2000 USD per month, if not more. |
Yeah, maybe.
Actually, I had an interview for a university in Taipei. They had no housing available and was going to pay me equivalent to $1,100/month. Quite a contrast to what I was making in Korea at a university ($3,000/month) without housing. |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:51 am Post subject: Re: China: Not the Next Korea After All? |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| Son Deureo! wrote: |
| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| cdninkorea wrote: |
The Real Bottom of the Barrel: ESL Teacher Wages
| Quote: |
Hong Kong: 25,000.00 HKD (3,205.65 USD)
Japan: 250,000.00 JPY (2,323.41 USD)
South Korea: 2,300,000 WON (2,205.00 USD)
Vietnam: 21,857,550.00 (1,300.00 USD)
Taiwan: 35,000.00 TWD (1,151.478 USD)
Indonesia 9,500,000.00 IDR (1,026.48 USD)
Thailand: 33,000 BAHT (1,000.00 USD)
Malaysia 3,500.00 MYR (1,071.50 USD)
Mongolia 1,100,000.00 MNT (948.20 USD)
China: 6,000.00 RMB (874.848 USD) |
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Great list. Taiwan has REALLY went downhill! 12 years ago, Korea was also the same as Taiwan, but salaries/wages always go up in Korea, and Taiwan they NEVER did. Amazing. |
A quick scan of Dave's job postings (here, here, here, and here)suggests that it's still very possible to get an EFL job in Taiwan making about $60,000NTD/$2000 USD per month, if not more. |
Yeah, maybe.
Actually, I had an interview for a university in Taipei. They had no housing available and was going to pay me equivalent to $1,100/month. Quite a contrast to what I was making in Korea at a university ($3,000/month) without housing. |
I believe it. I'm not an expert on the Taiwan EFL market, but my understanding is that it's very different from Korea. I don't think there's ever been much money in teaching uni there, the real money there is from teaching kindergarten and privates to adults. At least that's what my friends who taught there tell me. |
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Guri Guy
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: Bamboo Island
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:19 am Post subject: |
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I have heard if you don't live in Taipei, living in Taiwan is pretty cheap.
If you have some experience you can do better than those listed salaries.
I think even Hess, a big chain school pays more than that and I knew a guy that was making 4-5,000 dollars a month working for them. It was in his third year with the company.
It certainly isn't 1,100 dollars a month typically. Maybe for a part time job. |
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