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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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 Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| kingplaya4 wrote: |
| They are only charging him with second degree murder, are you kidding me? |
Well, unless they can prove that he got on the bus with the intention to kill that dude they can't prove 1st degree.. Right?
Anyways, he'll plead insanity and be institutionalized. |
I do believe 1st degree murder is really hard to establish in Canada. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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How many degrees of murder exist in Candian jurisprudence? What are their elements? And why is first degree murder so difficult to prove there?
Each state in the United States establishes different laws. First degree murder in California, for example, requires proving premeditation (established by such standards as "lying in wait," for example) and then intent to commit an unlawful killing. And if the suspect merely intended to kidnap and not kill the victim, but the suspect's actions still killed the victim, then the state will prosecute the suspect for first degree murder in this instance, too. In other words, "attempted kidnapping" (or "arson," or what-have-you) cannot in any way mitigate the victim's unlawful death.
I understand that in this particular case, the suspect entered public transportation armed with a deadly weapon. (By the way, can Canadians carry such knives whenever and whereever they please?) He then attacked and killed the victim in a deliberate and not accidental way. The victim, according to witnesses, did nothing to provoke the suspect. Sounds an awful lot like premeditated violence to me. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
How many degrees of murder exist in Candian jurisprudence? What are their elements? And why is first degree murder so difficult to prove there?
Each state in the United States establishes different laws. First degree murder in California, for example, requires proving premeditation (established by such standards as "lying in wait," for example) and then intent to commit an unlawful killing. And if the suspect merely intended to kidnap and not kill the victim, but the suspect's actions still killed the victim, then the state will prosecute the suspect for first degree murder in this instance, too. In other words, "attempted kidnapping" (or "arson," or what-have-you) cannot in any way mitigate the victim's unlawful death.
I understand that in this particular case, the suspect entered public transportation armed with a deadly weapon. (By the way, can Canadians carry such knives whenever and whereever they please?) He then attacked and killed the victim in a deliberate and not accidental way. The victim, according to witnesses, did nothing to provoke the suspect. Sounds an awful lot like premeditated violence to me. |
http://osgoode.yorku.ca/media2.nsf/83303ffe5af03ed585256ae6005379c9/3e70235bcbdb9117852573ad0060a2ed!OpenDocument
A man murders and grinds up 6+ prostitutes and gets 2nd degree murder.
I don't know why Canadian justice sets a very high bar for murder 1. It just does. And bear in mind a life sentence in Canada is 25 years. Convictions for multiple murder are served concurrently, not in serial. So whether your murder 1 or 20, you get 25 years. |
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Firearcher
Joined: 22 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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The difference between 1st & 2nd degree murder is whether it was planned or unplanned.
1st - Planned In Advance To Murder & kill
2nd Unplanned Murder Intent to kill
Manslaughter - Murder due to Recklessness and no intent to Kill but to harm
Negligence Causing Death: Killing another accidently EX: DUI
The guy took a knife aboard a bus for what purpose?
IMO He planned to kill someone, sought out his victim and murdered.
Thats first degree. |
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TECO
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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Holy frig - I've just started reading about this young guy who whose head was cut off on a Greyhound bus! Just sitting there as a passenger not bothering anyone and someone comes up and cuts his head off. That's all kinds of wrong.
why do the RCMP refer to it as a "Stabbing" ?  |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| Firearcher wrote: |
The difference between 1st & 2nd degree murder is whether it was planned or unplanned.
1st - Planned In Advance To Murder & kill
2nd Unplanned Murder Intent to kill
Manslaughter - Murder due to Recklessness and no intent to Kill but to harm
Negligence Causing Death: Killing another accidently EX: DUI
The guy took a knife aboard a bus for what purpose?
IMO He planned to kill someone, sought out his victim and murdered.
Thats first degree. |
He should get the maximum penalty for what he did. I can't understand why this guy snapped and killed such a nice man. The guy supposedly was a good employee. What gives? I wish we can find a scientific explanation for someone all of a sudden going over the edge like that. His wife has no clue, his boss has no clue, and this guy couldn't have killed a nicer guy. If I supported the death penalty, he would be the poster child candidate for it after what he did to such a caring, young man, but I don't believe in it, and I think he will be taken care of in some way or another for what he did for terminating a human life. May God have mercy on his soul for such a diabolical deed. I am not sure people in prison will be kind to him. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| (By the way, can Canadians carry such knives whenever and whereever they please?) . |
Last I recall, you could carry but could not conceal. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: Man stabbed, then decapitated, on Greyhound Bus |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| nautilus wrote: |
| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
| ...the man was Aboriginal in appearance |
Another scalp for the Sioux. Payback for 400 years of colonisation. Maybe the bus was driving over sacred land? |
Read the article, the victim was aboriginal in apperance. |
Nope, not from the newest pics released. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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The idea seems to be catching on.This one is probably even more shocking.
Greek man beheads girlfriend on Santorini island
ATHENS (Reuters) - A 31-year-old Greek beheaded his girlfriend and carried her head round the popular tourist island of Santorini before he was arrested, police said on Sunday.
"He was walking around, carrying her head and telling the astonished villagers not to stop him," a police official told Reuters. "They knew he had psychological problems ... but they didn't expect he would reach this point."
The man knifed a policeman who tried to arrest him, stole a police car and crashed into a motorcycle injuring two women, before police ended his escape by ramming the car.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20080803/tts-uk-greece-decapitation-bed299d.html |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
The idea seems to be catching on.This one is probably even more shocking.
Greek man beheads girlfriend on Santorini island
ATHENS (Reuters) - A 31-year-old Greek beheaded his girlfriend and carried her head round the popular tourist island of Santorini before he was arrested, police said on Sunday.
"He was walking around, carrying her head and telling the astonished villagers not to stop him," a police official told Reuters. "They knew he had psychological problems ... but they didn't expect he would reach this point."
The man knifed a policeman who tried to arrest him, stole a police car and crashed into a motorcycle injuring two women, before police ended his escape by ramming the car.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20080803/tts-uk-greece-decapitation-bed299d.html |
Well, the world seems to have more and more nut cases... I don't know what to say... |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:11 am Post subject: |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_murder_rule
From Wiki: In the United States, felony murder is generally first-degree murder, and often a capital offense.
** Carrying a concealed weapon is a felony, so the nutjob would automatically be prosecuted for 1st degree murder in the States. I dunno about Canada, though. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:41 am Post subject: |
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The Winnipeg Free Press speculates that there may be more to this case than originally met the eye...
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The seeds for Tim McLean's brutal murder on board a Greyhound bus last week may have been planted when the accused killer, Vince Li, spent nearly an hour chatting up the victim's female co-worker during their ride through western Manitoba, the Free Press has learned.
Li, 40, took a seat at the front of the bus beside the woman after getting on board in Brandon. The pair chatted and were even seen smoking cigarettes together during a rest stop.
As the bus resumed its ill-fated journey towards Winnipeg, Li suddenly moved to the back of the bus and sat down beside McLean, who was listening to his headphones and apparently asleep.
It was just moments later that Li allegedly began stabbing McLean repeatedly with a large hunting knife, eventually severing his head, defiling his body and holding police at bay for a couple of hours after passengers scrambled off the bus.
McLean's family and friends don't believe Li's change-of-seating was a coincidence. And they question why he was charged with second-degree murder and not first-degree murder, which indicates planning and premeditation.
"I have this unbelievably strong feeling that him sitting beside Stacy had something to do with this," McLean's former girlfriend, Alexandra Storey, told the Free Press in an exclusive interview Monday.
Tim and Stacy had become friends while working together at various western Canadian fairs through North American Midway Entertainment. They were travelling together to Winnipeg -- although seated separately in different areas of the bus -- and had planned to meet up with a mutual friend in the city before all heading back out to British Columbia.
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Storey is also haunted by a series of text messages McLean sent to her as he made his way through Manitoba. Her ex-boyfriend -- who she remained very close to -- mentioned that some people were doing ecstasy on the bus.
Could Li have been one of those people?
Some medical experts say the combination of a powerful stimulant drug such as ecstasy, combined with pre-existing mental health conditions, could trigger a violent episode.
Storey isn't buying it.
"Even if he was doing drugs, it wouldn't make him do something like that. There's no excuse. The guy is (an alleged) cannibal. I don't care how sick he was," she said.
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| Well, the world seems to have more and more nut cases...I don't know what to say... |
I do. I notice that you are giving "Canada" and "Canadians" a pass on this. (I agree, incidentally.) I believe that had this murder happened in America, if not you, then others here for certain, would have phrased this sentence that you constructed, above, a little differently. And there would not likely have been any "I don't know what to says." People would have alleged and accused and all sorts of things without even thinking twice about it.  |
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