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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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 Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| contrarian wrote: |
blase:
That was the most foolish post I have seen on this thread. Lawyers are no immune from religion.
Psersonally, I don't care if Barrak Hussein Obama is a Muslim or not, I done want him as US president. Hwe would be a disaster that makes Jimmy Carter look good. |
a) most intelligent people who claim to be religious do so for pragmatic purposes, I believe.
b) I don't see how anyone could think that Bush part III could be better than any other option, including the local fry guy at Whattaburger. If Bush were running again, oh wait, McCain is Bush, what could he possibly run on? If McCain wins, it will be proof positive that the American empire is officially done, not that most people don't think that already. |
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contrarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:23 am Post subject: |
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blase:
I practiced law in Alberta, Canada for 35 years. I am an active believing Mormon (LDS). Before I came to Korea in 2000 I was in a congregation of about 450 people and 11 lawyers.
I am also a neocon, andf pro American on nearly everything.
I have agreed with most of what Bush has done. McCain is a little too liberal for me but a lot better than Barak Hussein Obama. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| but I don't really think Obama believes the silliness of the bible, not being a lawyer and a smart one at that. |
Do you have any evidence for this? |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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| but I don't really think Obama believes the silliness of the bible, not being a lawyer and a smart one at that. |
Do you have any evidence for this? |
of course not!  if I did, Obama would be in big trouble now wouldn't he?
I'm just saying, if Jefferson, Payne, Franklin etc. were smart enough to figure out the falacies of the bible and with religion, then I assume Obama has as well.
It's like they say with religion: the masses believe in it, the wise laugh at it, and politicians use it. |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| contrarian wrote: |
blase:
I practiced law in Alberta, Canada for 35 years. I am an active believing Mormon (LDS). Before I came to Korea in 2000 I was in a congregation of about 450 people and 11 lawyers.
I am also a neocon, andf pro American on nearly everything.
I have agreed with most of what Bush has done. McCain is a little too liberal for me but a lot better than Barak Hussein Obama. |
I'm not saying lawyers can't be religious, I'm saying it would be harder for a lawyer to believe that mucky-muck than a normal joe, as a lawyer is trained to think rationally and logically (weren't you?).
Tell me specifically 5 things you agree with that Bush has done. Then give me a couple examples of how BHO's policies don't do it for you.
I also have to ask you, how do you reconcile your Christian belief when it is based on the bible, which is filled, both old and new testament, with horrific violence, misogyny, racism, and bigotry. How do you decide what to ignore and what to take from it? |
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contrarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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Five things I agree with from Bush's conduct.
1. Starting a crusade against Islamic extremism. He should have stuck to the phrse.
2. Invading Afghanitsan.
3. Invading Iraq, although that has gone off the tracks a lot in its execution.
4. Polarising the world. It was long overdue. The Americans needs to muscle flex to convince the world not to F*ck with us.
5. His appointments to the USSC have been right on.
There are more, but that is what you asked for. |
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ytuque
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Location: I drink therefore I am!
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: 12% - Still Think Obama is Muslim |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| ytuque wrote: |
| Obama's half-brother has publicly stated that Barack Obama is a muslim, so the confusion extends to his own family members. |
Barack Obama grew up with his HALF-SISTER, his white Kansas MOTHER, and his Kansas GRANDPARENTS.
Barack's Father was long gone at an early age, and died by the time Barack Obama was, I believe 18. During those 18 years between leaving Barack's mother and his eventual death, its completely possible he got married and started a family in Kenya. But its real safe to say that any 'half-brother' in Kenya would be completely clueless about his American half-brother.
The propoganda interview, and I can only find one of them online, and NO OTHER SOURCES to any other supposed interview, seem to indicate this 'half-brother' a very clueless guy who was probably quite surprised he even has a half-brother who happens to be running for President of the United States, let alone have any knowledge about him.
Well, considering if that ONE news piece is factual, as its the only one being perpetuated all of the many rightwing LOON websites, and haven't heard any other different interview/source about this whatsoever. |
This clueless half-brother was the best man at Barack's wedding, and Barack was the best man at his. Since Barack attended a madrasa for a time and sometimes attended a mosque with his stepfather, it is quite possible that he was muslim in his childhood.
On the other hand, does it matter? I am more concerned about his lack of experience, the people that he has surrounded himself with the past 20+ years, and the cult of personality that he has cultivated. |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| contrarian wrote: |
Five things I agree with from Bush's conduct.
1. Starting a crusade against Islamic extremism. He should have stuck to the phrse.
2. Invading Afghanitsan.
3. Invading Iraq, although that has gone off the tracks a lot in its execution.
4. Polarising the world. It was long overdue. The Americans needs to muscle flex to convince the world not to F*ck with us.
5. His appointments to the USSC have been right on.
There are more, but that is what you asked for. |
I appreciate your answer, although I have to question why you would support the invasion of Iraq, when it has had such disasterous consequences in innumerable ways.
I don't think invading Iraq will stop muslim extremists. Perhaps suspending habeus corpus, commiting illegal wiretaps, imploding the U.S. economy through deregulation, and subverting the constitution whenever and wherever possible might give the elite of America more power over the serfdom, if you consider that an admirable goal.
You didn't answer which policies of Obama's you didn't like, and you didn't answer the bible question. I'm honestly very curious how you, as a former lawyer, reconcile the atrocities (like Abraham throwing his son on a pyre as a sacrifice to god) committed throughout the old testament. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:15 am Post subject: Re: 12% - Still Think Obama is Muslim |
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| ytuque wrote: |
This clueless half-brother was the best man at Barack's wedding, and Barack was the best man at his. Since Barack attended a madrasa for a time and sometimes attended a mosque with his stepfather, it is quite possible that he was muslim in his childhood.
On the other hand, does it matter? I am more concerned about his lack of experience, the people that he has surrounded himself with the past 20+ years, and the cult of personality that he has cultivated. |
Do you have any sources on the best man stuff.
Regarding his stepfather. You are referring to the time when Obama was a kid with his Kansas mother, and she had married an Indonesian man and they were living in Indonesia. That marriage didnt work out and I think that was only for about three years when he was like six years old. All the other stuff, a madrasa and mosque, I dont doubt that a six-year-old kid was brought to many places by his stepfather when he arrived in Indonesia with his mom for those several childhood years. I have incredibly HIGH HIGH DOUBTS that those few years had even a sliver of effect on his personal beliefs to any degree whatsoever as you seem to believe (or as your propoganda sources want you to believe).
Ive lived in Asia for years, students have brought me to buddhist temples, but that doesnt mean Im next in line for the Dalai Lama. |
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contrarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:15 am Post subject: |
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The atheist is trying for a religious discussion.
1. Iraq, so long as the sunni, the shia and the Kurds are at each others throats they are not at ours. The Shia deserve some pay back. The Sunni need to learn some humility.
The consequences are only disastrous in your preception. Islam is the enemy. Their excesses must be stopped in any way that works. When Islam grants to other religious groups the full rights of proselytization as they demand then I may recondsider.
Your comments about power elite are pure claptrap. The US is, was and will continue to be much different than Europe. I am totally opposed to collectivism and socialism in any degree.
2. The expansions of power and the limitation of rights in the US have been quite minor considering the situation. Gitmo has had some excesses, which were a beck of a lot less than the excesses committed in WWII by the allies.
3. I don't recall a Biblical question being asked. Here's the answer you seem to seek. Abraham did not sacrifice Isaac on a funeral pyre (to be killed before burning) but expressed to God the willingness to do so. Abrahams willingness to sacrifice his son was in similitude of God's sacrifice of His son to attone for the sins of the world.
4. I don't like Obama's leftist ideology. I don't like his lecturing attitude. I don't like his hubris that he is some kind of new Messiah. His being black is nearly irrelevant - Condi Rice wouls make a fine president. He is, in short, a highly polished empty vessel. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:56 am Post subject: |
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The 12% figure was so low because Americans were asked. If you asked Muslims, the figure might approach 100%.
As the son of a Muslim, in their eyes Barack Hussein Obama is a Muslim whether he likes it or not, and does not enjoy the prerogrative to renounce it. Indeed, doing so makes him an apostate and a target to be killed. Furthermore, a Muslim is not allowed to interfere in the killing of an apostate.
It will be a security nightmare if he ever travels to a Muslim country not controlled by the US. |
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ytuque
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Location: I drink therefore I am!
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:14 am Post subject: Re: 12% - Still Think Obama is Muslim |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| ytuque wrote: |
This clueless half-brother was the best man at Barack's wedding, and Barack was the best man at his. Since Barack attended a madrasa for a time and sometimes attended a mosque with his stepfather, it is quite possible that he was muslim in his childhood.
On the other hand, does it matter? I am more concerned about his lack of experience, the people that he has surrounded himself with the past 20+ years, and the cult of personality that he has cultivated. |
Do you have any sources on the best man stuff.
Regarding his stepfather. You are referring to the time when Obama was a kid with his Kansas mother, and she had married an Indonesian man and they were living in Indonesia. That marriage didnt work out and I think that was only for about three years when he was like six years old. All the other stuff, a madrasa and mosque, I dont doubt that a six-year-old kid was brought to many places by his stepfather when he arrived in Indonesia with his mom for those several childhood years. I have incredibly HIGH HIGH DOUBTS that those few years had even a sliver of effect on his personal beliefs to any degree whatsoever as you seem to believe (or as your propoganda sources want you to believe).
Ive lived in Asia for years, students have brought me to buddhist temples, but that doesnt mean Im next in line for the Dalai Lama. |
Do you have any sources on the best man stuff. Yes, enter "Barack Obama Best Man Wedding" into google, and there will many. I saw something on CNN or the BBC many months ago.
So far, I have only posted facts which are easily verified. You seem way too emotionally attached to Obama. Have you ever considered he is just like the other politicians except a bit more articulate and charismatic? |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:44 am Post subject: Re: 12% - Still Think Obama is Muslim |
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| ytuque wrote: |
| You seem way too emotionally attached to Obama. Have you ever considered he is just like the other politicians except a bit more articulate and charismatic? |
Yes, why is it that anyone would expect any significant difference from just another politician who comes from the same political apparatus and is bought and paid for by the same corporations?
Last edited by bacasper on Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:04 am Post subject: |
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| contrarian wrote: |
The atheist is trying for a religious discussion.
1. Iraq, so long as the sunni, the shia and the Kurds are at each others throats they are not at ours. The Shia deserve some pay back. The Sunni need to learn some humility.
The consequences are only disastrous in your preception. Islam is the enemy. Their excesses must be stopped in any way that works. When Islam grants to other religious groups the full rights of proselytization as they demand then I may recondsider.
Your comments about power elite are pure claptrap. The US is, was and will continue to be much different than Europe. I am totally opposed to collectivism and socialism in any degree.
2. The expansions of power and the limitation of rights in the US have been quite minor considering the situation. Gitmo has had some excesses, which were a beck of a lot less than the excesses committed in WWII by the allies.
3. I don't recall a Biblical question being asked. Here's the answer you seem to seek. Abraham did not sacrifice Isaac on a funeral pyre (to be killed before burning) but expressed to God the willingness to do so. Abrahams willingness to sacrifice his son was in similitude of God's sacrifice of His son to attone for the sins of the world.
4. I don't like Obama's leftist ideology. I don't like his lecturing attitude. I don't like his hubris that he is some kind of new Messiah. His being black is nearly irrelevant - Condi Rice wouls make a fine president. He is, in short, a highly polished empty vessel. |
Sorry, I thought we were having a partially religious discussion. Sorry if that makes you uncomfortable.  I'll take your "the atheist" comment as a compliment.
It's my understanding that Abraham had built the pyre and his son was on the pyre, and Abraham had his killing knife in hand, when an angel intervened to stop him, saying god was just testing him.
Now, Jesus came later, so to link Abraham's barbarity (and god's) to a future event seems like wishful thinking.
You never answered the question about how you reconcile the savagery of the old testament to the lives we lead today. How do you pick and choose what is relevent and irrelevent? |
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contrarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:08 am Post subject: |
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blase:
Your incremental (circular?) way of broadening partly or unasked questions is sophmoric, but fun. A liberal arts education seems to promote that.
The link between Abraham and Christ is direct. God, who knew everything, even from the beginning, planned it that way. Abraham was chosen, after this and other tests of faith, to be the first of the line that became the "chosen people". They children of Israel, now that part called the Jews are just that.
Brutality you ask? Such has always been with us and will continue to be with us until the good and evil are sorted out. Even the Son of God, Jesus said: "I come not to bring peace but the sword."
Islam is simply a Satanic imposition upon the world. Its excesses and more fanatical followers need to be stopped. In my opininion the hegemony of the west (mainly the US) must be maintained. Obama is NOT part of that. |
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