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agentX
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Location: Jeolla province
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 Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:34 am Post subject: |
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Oh lord, not these guys again. I see they're still grasping at straws.
| mises wrote: |
Members of a U.S. fringe group crossed the border into Canada overnight and are hiding somewhere in Manitoba, preparing to picket Tim McLean Jr.'s funeral, the Winnipeg man murdered and decapitated on a Greyhound bus last week, the group's spokesperson claimed Friday.
Canadian border authorities had stopped a separate group from entering Thursday, but Westboro Baptist Church spokeswoman Shirley Phelps-Roper said a second group managed to sneak through by sending identifying items separately by courier.
"They were looking for leaflets, which we don't do, and signs, which we do, but we have Federal Express," said Ms. Phelps-Roper. "Our guys are safely tucked away."
Earlier this week, the church -- an organization branded by some as a hate group and infamous for protesting the funerals of slain American soldiers -- announced it would picket McLean's funeral to let Canadians know that his decapitation was God's response to Canadian policies enabling abortion, homosexuality and adultery.
Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day's office had sent an alert to border patrol to "look out" for people with signs and pamphlets that fit the hateful messages that the church promotes and to keep them out of the country.
Ms. Phelps-Roper, 50, said she also received a phone call Friday morning from an RCMP officer who warned that their "God Hates Canada" placards could be against Canadian hate laws. She also scoffed at plans by some Winnipeg residents to stage a protective counter-protest against the Westboro militants saying: "God looks out for us." |
http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=710385
Phelps makes it sound like he's smuggling Bibles into Maoist-era China. He will *beep* his church out for attention no matter how tragic or mundane the crisis.
The Midwest gets a lot of tornadoes. The odds are low but you'll never know when one might form over their church. Who wants to show up to protest their funerals? Show of hands? |
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Faunaki
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| As a PK, pastor's kid, I've always been traumatized by the fact that loving, decent, family people can be so narrow mindedly steadfast in their attempt to please god - in whichever way they see fit. I'm sure these people think they are doing god's work yet to the rest of the world the only thing they are doing is pure evil. I feel sorry for them but hope they get what's coming. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| Faunaki wrote: |
| As a PK, pastor's kid, I've always been traumatized by the fact that loving, decent, family people can be so narrow mindedly steadfast in their attempt to please god - in whichever way they see fit. I'm sure these people think they are doing god's work yet to the rest of the world the only thing they are doing is pure evil. I feel sorry for them but hope they get what's coming. |
They are only demonstrating the logical conclusions of the Christian faith. God does hate fags. God does send disasters to people who transgress. It's rather amazing how many christians have problems with homosexuals but have zero problem with divorce. Congrats. You see what happens when you don't apply a buffet mentality to this religion and try to apply it.
Christians are looking at themselves in the mirror here. No less. |
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Faunaki
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| Yes, my point is that dogma has ruined many decent people. It's a shame. They can't see it, everyone else can. |
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joshuahirtle27
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| How does this church support itself, anyway? |
They own a family run Law firm which apparently must make a lot of money I was actually reading up on them after I heard about the lawsuit that they lost to an American soldiers family. I am a christian as are many of my friends and family but these people are just nuts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| It's rather amazing how many christians have problems with homosexuals but have zero problem with divorce. |
Personally I have no real problem with homosexuals and believe that they should have the same legal rights as anyone else. I do not believe that it is there fault they are the way they are. As for divorce I do not condone it unless there is abuse mental or emotional or one cheats on the other there has to be a valid reason but even then there is always separation. |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| joshuahirtle27 wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| How does this church support itself, anyway? |
They own a family run Law firm which apparently must make a lot of money I was actually reading up on them after I heard about the lawsuit that they lost to an American soldiers family. I am a christian as are many of my friends and family but these people are just nuts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| It's rather amazing how many christians have problems with homosexuals but have zero problem with divorce. |
Personally I have no real problem with homosexuals and believe that they should have the same legal rights as anyone else. I do not believe that it is there fault they are the way they are. As for divorce I do not condone it unless there is abuse mental or emotional or one cheats on the other there has to be a valid reason but even then there is always separation. |
The bible says homosexuals should be stoned to death. Do you not believe in the bible? Please explain how you pick and choose what is right and wrong in the bible, yet you can still consider it the word of god. I don't get it. |
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Paddycakes
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:37 am Post subject: |
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Well, I just read the Globe's report on the funeral for the guy, and apparently no protesters showed up on scene.
And even if they did, the RCMP would have shut them down in seconds. So big deal. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:55 am Post subject: |
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| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
| joshuahirtle27 wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| How does this church support itself, anyway? |
They own a family run Law firm which apparently must make a lot of money I was actually reading up on them after I heard about the lawsuit that they lost to an American soldiers family. I am a christian as are many of my friends and family but these people are just nuts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| It's rather amazing how many christians have problems with homosexuals but have zero problem with divorce. |
Personally I have no real problem with homosexuals and believe that they should have the same legal rights as anyone else. I do not believe that it is there fault they are the way they are. As for divorce I do not condone it unless there is abuse mental or emotional or one cheats on the other there has to be a valid reason but even then there is always separation. |
The bible says homosexuals should be stoned to death. Do you not believe in the bible? Please explain how you pick and choose what is right and wrong in the bible, yet you can still consider it the word of god. I don't get it. |
It seems Jesus says nothing about homosexuals and a lot of other moral matters. Seems a lot of Christians go to the OT for moral rulings and there they pick and choose. To me it seems like they find the passages that confirm their hates and ignore the stuff that's inconvenient.
Who hast to get stoned according to the bible:
http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2006/09/biblical-justice-everybody-must-get.html |
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joshuahirtle27
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:19 am Post subject: |
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Please read this as facts as I know them not an attempt to preach to you. For more information on anything like this you should consult someone with an M.Div at the least. My recommendation is that you research the crap out of anything and remember I only minored in Religious studies and it was fairly heavy on OT covenant and NT religion.
| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
| joshuahirtle27 wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| How does this church support itself, anyway? |
They own a family run Law firm which apparently must make a lot of money I was actually reading up on them after I heard about the lawsuit that they lost to an American soldiers family. I am a christian as are many of my friends and family but these people are just nuts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| It's rather amazing how many Christians have problems with homosexuals but have zero problem with divorce. |
Personally I have no real problem with homosexuals and believe that they should have the same legal rights as anyone else. I do not believe that it is there fault they are the way they are. As for divorce I do not condone it unless there is abuse mental or emotional or one cheats on the other there has to be a valid reason but even then there is always separation. |
The bible says homosexuals should be stoned to death. Do you not believe in the bible? Please explain how you pick and choose what is right and wrong in the bible, yet you can still consider it the word of god. I don't get it. |
Well as much as this was supposed to turn into some kind of religious debate and as much as I do believe in God (not god as you forgot to use the correct one) I feel it's necessary to point out that the second to original post was in reference to homosexuals and divorce. Homosexuals can't help that they are born that way (or choose to be that way, what ever your PC-ness dictates) there's nothing inherently wrong with it. I have a problem with Homosexuals who "get around"... cause that just begs for trouble with any number of diseases from people. The original comment I made was also meant to reflect "How does the church support its self?" and " It's rather amazing how many Christians have problems with homosexuals but have zero problem with divorce." Also it's important to note that a lot of people call themselves christian (little c) so they can fit into their WASP suburbs. Many people just have "christian" weddings because it's "the norm" or "socially acceptable" for their area. Saying you are Christian and being one are apples and elephants (I know it's supposed to be oranges but they are BOTH FRUIT).
Not all Christians (big c) are against Homosexuality, and not all Christians are against Divorce (just capitalizing them for punch). I'm against divorce just because I don't think that if a couple cant work something out they should separated. In any good relationship each person should be giving 70%... I say good because a lot of people are trapped in bad ones and that's not cool. Both OT and NT (Old Covenant and New Covenant) set aside guidelines for which divorce is "acceptable" in the eyes of God. They have to do with adultery and virginity... I recommend research on your part.
As for biblical narrative or doctrine stating divorce is wrong and homosexuality is wrong people need to do some research and see what the book says before they ask questions like "The bible says homosexuals should be stoned to death. Do you not believe in the bible? Please explain how you pick and choose what is right and wrong in the bible, yet you can still consider it the word of god. I don't get it" One doesn't pick and choose if they truly understand the word of God. They should do their best to keep the laws as they are written.
That being said I will address your "The bible says homosexuals should be stoned to death." comment first. 1)That is Old covenant doctrine. It was meant to keep the Jews holy and pure and free from disease. It was also meant to keep them from becoming like the Sodomites, Babylonians, etc. Who were idolaters and worshiped false gods. As you can imagine YAHWEH did not like the thought of that. 2) The only SET-IN-STONE rules are the Mosaic laws also known as the 10 words or 10 Commandments the rest of the 600 something laws are man made. The Old Covenant (OT) also says that you cannot enter the Holiest of Hollies (read very front of the church where the baptismal tank is (in a Baptist Church)) unless you are a priest... now we have organs and drums there. That is due to New Covenant (NT) where Christ is the moderator between God and man where, Christ is the sacrificial lamb and the "Ultimate Sacrifice". Instead of a one way ticket to Hell because no priest would dare offer a sacrifice for you to be saved you may ask forgiveness of Christ and He basically says "don't do it again". It's a sincerity thing (I'm sure you've seen it with your students.) PHEW... Since "Homosexuals should be stoned to death" is OT and Christians aren't bound by OT rather NT laws then it's okay to be... gay... I guess. It's also a cultural thing... as I said before; the Hebrews weren't interested in becoming Sodomites. You also must keep in mind they stoned adulterers and people who had sex with animals to death.
I think I can move on to part 2 of your question/ statement. "Do you not believe in the bible? Please explain how you pick and choose what is right and wrong in the bible, yet you can still consider it the word of god. I don't get it" As I explained before there are 2 parts to the Bible (the original one discluding the Book of Mormon) It's all circular some of it depends on your ability to understand and interrupt the narrative. It's full of things that are absolute but only as you need them to be in that it also says "if one eye causes you to sin pluck it out..." You can either pluck out your eye OR you can stop doing the thing that is causing you to sin. It's not rocket science. The NT (which Christians are "bound" to) says nothing in the matter of killing ones fellow man if they are homosexual... It's more of a "love the sinner, not the sin" piece of doctrine where people (of every kind not just JEW) are under the protection of the promise of Christ. The premise of NT doctrine is that the JEWS are not God's only chosen people anymore and since everyone is not as holy as the Jews there needed to be a lasting sacrifice for everyone.
Now a "good Christian" is capable of looking past the sin the person is committing... and they are also able to interpret what a sin IS.... Some are just plain bad at that and they have a holier than thou attitude which is NOT what the NT says to do. A good Christian does not pick and choose... but they choose to understand the person as a man with a fallen nature (research that too).
Anyway... this has been long... Hope it helps. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:22 am Post subject: ... |
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| Seems a lot of Christians go to the OT for moral rulings and there they pick and choose. To me it seems like they find the passages that confirm their hates and ignore the stuff that's inconvenient. |
While I don't consider myself a religious person, I appreciate the Gnostic interpretation of Christianity, wherein the OT "God" is regarded as the "demi-urge", a kind of devil brought forth from an angel-like being known as Sophia. Sophia recognizes the issues with the demi-urge, and puts Eve into Eden to lead humankind away from the demi-urge, lead Adam to the apple, and eventually back to Christ.
That's my very bad version of it, but finding out about it still helped me see a version of Christianity that made far more sense than the one that prevails, meaning that the OT is wrong and the NT is good. I really have no problem with Jesus. He is, to be a bit irreverent, way cool. I still don't believe in a ressurection, but the Gnostic interpretation elevates Christianity to a level that I don't have much objection to/doesn't conflict with my perceptions of life, existence, morality, etc...
Of course, once they weren't being fed to the lions, the "Christians" essentially snuffed the Gnostics out as heretics...
I believe Sylvia Plath was a Gnostic at the time of her death, as well as some other notable figures. |
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Cheonmunka
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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Having read the Bible (well, the Catholic version - what's your version? - seems every damned bible is different) from front to back I can't see anything that says homosexuality is anti-Christian. Sodomy yes, love for a brother or sister, Nah.
It's not there, is it?
So, all the good Christians practicing anal sex because it's gonna keep them virgins don't realize this behavior is actually gonna send them somewhere else.
Hard core believers suck a big one. Manipulating words to make it mean whatever they want them to mean.
Anyway, Jesus came and the Jews of old killed him, according to the Bible. Can't see anything in the New Testament, which occurs after the Son, about homosexuality let alone sodomy. |
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