|
Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Justin Hale

Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Location: the Straight Talk Express
|
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject: Are some academic subjects intrinsically male? |
|
|
Recently, I had the pleasure of being a science teacher, albeit briefly. In my job, we had a day whereby we taught normal school subjects in English to our students otherwise usually engaged in EFL with us. One teacher taught geography, another math, another art, another history, and so on. I got science, lucky me! The students are all in top sets academically at their respective schools in their respective countries (Spain, Russia, Italy, Saudi Arabia, Ecuador, Bahrain, Germany, Norway, Turkey and Greece) and despite widely differing English ability are very capable kids (age 12-16).
Anyway, getting to the point at long last, I did a class on a subject dear to my heart - space! (I had to make my own materials) Here's what was on the menu:
Quote: |
1. Our planet - basic Earth facts
2. Our family - our Solar System and mother star
3. Our bigger family - our Milky Way galaxy
4. Our even bigger family - our Local Group
5. Our supermega family - our universe
6. The speed of light
7. Distances in space - light years
8. The possibility of other planets with life on them
9. The possibility of alien visits
10. Weird stuff (universe's accelerated expansion, time travel)
|
This was of course backed up with feedback, tons of pictures on powerpoint and an OHP and follow-up activities.
I was a bit concerned about the fact that all the feedback came from boys. I've long felt that using science in EFL (cool stuff for kids like dinosaurs and space science) is really excellent and useful, but perhaps rather boyish and outside of girls' natural sphere of interest. So, my query is....(a) is space not typically for girls? and (b) if space is decidedly boyish, are there such things as intrinsically male and female subjects, certainly at teen age and perhaps just generally? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
KOREAN_MAN
Joined: 01 Oct 2006
|
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think girls, especially K-girls, are interested in space as much as we men are interested in relationships. Even if a girl in your class has a question or two, she might be too shy to ask. But I doubt that they have any kind of interest in space. And I don't think Koreans are a curious type. They don't really question things around them. Maybe you can make them memorize the planets in our solar system and they won't have a fit. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
MollyBloom

Joined: 21 Jul 2006 Location: James Joyce's pants
|
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
Remember when ex-president of Harvard, Larry Summers, made a comment about boys being better at math and science than girls and all the feminists freaked out? He's right; it's a fact. Just like how women are better at some things more than men are. Also, some women are better than some men at math and science, but in general, studies have shown that men and women have their "stereotyped" strengths and weaknesses. Men and women are not the same because they are built differently. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Cheonmunka

Joined: 04 Jun 2004
|
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Nonsense. Both genders do equally well thru diverse subjects. Boys can be good at religious studies/home economics, girls good at math and science.
Check out achievement rates for math (for example) at all-girls' schools vis a vis all boys' schools - national testing academic results do not favor one sex over the other.
In my high school teacher training we looked at differing philosophies as well as current situations. Generally, boys are falling behind in reading skills. Girls are leaping ahead. It seems that boys are encouraged to 'be boys' and are falling behind in general educational achievement because they are not encouraged to read well. Creating more of a gender difference is hurting the boys.
Men can be excellent nurturers and provide bed-time stories.
Women can be excellent astronauts and scientists.
Believe it. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
peppermint

Joined: 13 May 2003 Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
|
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Are some academic subjects intrinsically male? |
|
|
Justin Hale wrote: |
Recently, I had the pleasure of being a science teacher, albeit briefly. In my job, we had a day whereby we taught normal school subjects in English to our students otherwise usually engaged in EFL with us. |
So, you're still doing TEFL though you're at home then? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Nowhere Man

Joined: 08 Feb 2004
|
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:19 pm Post subject: ... |
|
|
He opened a school on his yacht. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
|
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
My school has 90% male students. Ninty percent of the women students are in the most advanced classes each term. This supports the idea that women are typically better with languages. Years ago I read a psychobiologist (or whatever they are called) who said it may be due to evolution--women being smaller on average developed language as a compensation. Interesting theory. Personally, I suspect men developed muscles in order to shup up the yakky cavewife. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Justin Hale

Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Location: the Straight Talk Express
|
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: Are some academic subjects intrinsically male? |
|
|
peppermint wrote: |
Justin Hale wrote: |
Recently, I had the pleasure of being a science teacher, albeit briefly. In my job, we had a day whereby we taught normal school subjects in English to our students otherwise usually engaged in EFL with us. |
So, you're still doing TEFL though you're at home then? |
I did do, yes, but it was a temporary position and has finished now. It was a management position as well and I thought it'd look good on my CV. It was part-time too. Had it been full-time, I doubt I'd have bothered because I needed a break. I really enjoyed it though because it was a truly international program.
Interestingly, I got a little exposure to a political/cultural issue in Spain. Many of the Spaniards were from Catalonia and had very separatist attitudes.
Anyway, I agree with those who say there are no male subjects, since girls outperform boys in compulsory education in all subjects, I believe, but certainly with specific regard to space I think women and girls tend not to be remotely interested, which is a shame.
KOREAN_MAN wrote: |
I think girls, especially K-girls, are interested in space as much as we men are interested in relationships. Even if a girl in your class has a question or two, she might be too shy to ask. But I doubt that they have any kind of interest in space. And I don't think Koreans are a curious type. They don't really question things around them. Maybe you can make them memorize the planets in our solar system and they won't have a fit. |
There weren't any Koreans involved, but thanks for your comments. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
semi-fly

Joined: 07 Apr 2008
|
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
My school has 90% male students. Ninty percent of the women students are in the most advanced classes each term. This supports the idea that women are typically better with languages. Years ago I read a psychobiologist (or whatever they are called) who said it may be due to evolution--women being smaller on average developed language as a compensation. Interesting theory. Personally, I suspect men developed muscles in order to shup up the yakky cavewife. |
Women developed this language ability years ago to counter your assumption that men developed their muscles to shut up their 'yakky' cave wives by talking so much they drive their respective cave husbands to commit suicide. (Read as simply, yet ignorant humor)
Back to reality, I've read the same reports about women developing language skills, though I wouldn't agree had to do with compensation over being smaller in stature. I would agree it's a balancing act though, a very strange one. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
kermo

Joined: 01 Sep 2004 Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
|
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Is eating tomato soup intrinsically male? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
peppermint

Joined: 13 May 2003 Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
|
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm dubious about women being better at languages, though it might be more of a common interest for them
If you want to get all ev psych on the idea, it would seem logical that women would be more into languages and communicating. Men were typically out on their own hunting, while women gathered plants and things,which tends to be more of a communal activity. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
ulsanchris
Joined: 19 Jun 2003 Location: take a wild guess
|
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Cheonmunka wrote: |
Nonsense. Both genders do equally well thru diverse subjects. Boys can be good at religious studies/home economics, girls good at math and science.
Check out achievement rates for math (for example) at all-girls' schools vis a vis all boys' schools - national testing academic results do not favor one sex over the other.
In my high school teacher training we looked at differing philosophies as well as current situations. Generally, boys are falling behind in reading skills. Girls are leaping ahead. It seems that boys are encouraged to 'be boys' and are falling behind in general educational achievement because they are not encouraged to read well. Creating more of a gender difference is hurting the boys.
Men can be excellent nurturers and provide bed-time stories.
Women can be excellent astronauts and scientists.
Believe it. |
I thought that many people believed that the reason boys are falling behind girls is because of the feminisation of education and people thinking that girls and boys learn equally well under a cooperative non-competitive learning environment. Regarding reading specifically isn't the trend that girls develop reading and language skills earlier and faster than boys but by the time they finish high school they are at the same skill level.
Also I think that you are missing a point. While some men might be excellent nurturers and some women might make excellent scientists, the trend is that men are better than women as scientists and women are better care takers.
I know some feminists like to argue that it is only culture that creates a divide between genders, but studies suggest that some of the behaviours that differ between genders are hard wired into our brains. On one show I watched they put some traditional girl toys (dolls, etc) and traditional boy toys (toy trucks, etc) in a chimpanzee enclosure. The girl chimpanzees went for the dolls while the boy chimpanzees went for the trucks. This suggests that certain behaviours are hard wired into our brains. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Leslie Cheswyck

Joined: 31 May 2003 Location: University of Western Chile
|
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
peppermint wrote: |
I'm dubious about women being better at languages, though it might be more of a common interest for them
If you want to get all ev psych on the idea, it would seem logical that women would be more into languages and communicating. Men were typically out on their own hunting, while women gathered plants and things,which tends to be more of a communal activity. |
Men hunted in groups as well. Nothing necessarily non-communal about hunting; just can't talk much while chasing down the big bison. Communication was done before the hunt (planning). And lots of talk after the hunt (boasting). |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Draz

Joined: 27 Jun 2007 Location: Land of Morning Clam
|
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Whenever I think about space it's to wonder if there are aliens out there that I could talk to some day. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
kermo

Joined: 01 Sep 2004 Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
|
Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
ulsanchris wrote: |
Also I think that you are missing a point. While some men might be excellent nurturers and some women might make excellent scientists, the trend is that men are better than women as scientists and women are better care takers.
I know some feminists like to argue that it is only culture that creates a divide between genders, but studies suggest that some of the behaviours that differ between genders are hard wired into our brains. On one show I watched they put some traditional girl toys (dolls, etc) and traditional boy toys (toy trucks, etc) in a chimpanzee enclosure. The girl chimpanzees went for the dolls while the boy chimpanzees went for the trucks. This suggests that certain behaviours are hard wired into our brains. |
Male chimpanzees are hard-wired to play with trucks? They evolved in anticipation of miniaturized four-wheeled combustion-powered transportation? Very, very impressive.
Although I think your study is bunk (please post the authors, if you've got 'em), I did find myself recently wondering why Thomas the Tank Engine is so big with little boys. Who gives a toss about trains? Why not toasters or elephants?
Back to the OP, I just don't think we know enough right now to make any accurate generalizations about men and women's "natural" talents. Our culture influences the way kids are raised and educated, and although evolutionary psychology and modern neurology have shed light on sex differences, there are still far too many factors clouding the issue. Give it a few more generations, see what happens when sex discrimination becomes less of a factor, when child care gets divided more evenly, when educational psychology hits upon the next big trend, brain imaging research carries on, and then let's see what we can glean. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|