Korean Job Discussion Forums

chris_J2 · Joined: 17 Apr 2006 Location: From Brisbane, Au.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7562611.stm

I am impressed with the German Chancellor Merkel, speaking up against Georgia, and providing a more balanced criticism of Russia, than Rice.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,3567243,00.html

"Women and children were murdered, churches packed with refugees set alight and entire villages razed," he (Kotenev) told the paper, when referring to Georgian atrocities in South Ossetia. 10 Russian peacekeepers in SO were also killed.

Adventurer · Joined: 28 Jan 2006

I think the Georgians took a gamble. The US and NATO took territory from Serbia and that land was called Kossovo. If Russia is doing the same, then do NATO and the US have the right to complain? Of course, they would complain since it is politics. Of course, Russia is making many people nervous with its military moves. It could also make the Ukraine quite nervous.

Kimchi Cha Cha · Joined: 15 May 2003 Location: was Suncheon, now Brisbane

This is messy and I believe it's just a another step in march towards confrontation between Russia and the West that has been developing over the past few years but largely unnoticed due to Western, particularly, American pre-occupation with Islamic terrorism, Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran. All the while, Russia has been pushing and pushing ever further seeing how much more it can get away with.

There is no innocent party in this latest conflict. The more I look into it, the more I believe Georgia provoked Russia into some kind of response with its offensive into South Ossetia. Though, Georgia have won the PR war thanks largely not only to its Western support but to its media-savvy, passionate and articulate President Saakashvili, whose impassioned pleas to the world for help over unprovoked Russian aggression, fooled many including me. Russia were too slow to play the media game and lost the moral advantage in the opening of the conflict, which Georgia somewhat dubiously has now.

Yes, the Russian were strong, quick, decisive, clinical, cynical and brutal. It was aimed at showing not just Georgia and the near-abroad but also the West - DO NOT F#CK WITH RUSSIA. Saakashvili gambled that he'd have the West's unwaivering support but bit off more than he could chew with Russia going on the full-offensive and he was left with his pants around his ankles as the West watched from the sidelines.

But, at the same time Saakashvili does make valid points. The West has been asleep and/or otherwise preoccupied whilst Russia under Czar Vlad - who still is in charge - slowly did more and more to see what he could get away with. Look at what happen to Yushchenko in the lead up to Ukraine's - a sovereign nation - democratic elections. Look at what happened to Litvinenko - in London, of all places. Look at Chechenya, look at the widespread violence against minority groups in Russia at the hands of ultra-nationalist thugs, the police either ignore the problems or are complicit with the violence. Ask dissidents such as Kasparov how free Russia is today.

The West, especially US, also have been far from angels in all this. They have actively tried to cozy up to former Soviet republics and move them towards Western democracy, which in hindsight was bound to piss Russia off.

The Russians said yesterday that Poland having a missile defence system with not go unpunished.

Russia and the West are on a collision course and this is just the beginning. The West has its hands in too many jars at the moment and Russia knows this and will use this situation to its advantage and see how much more it can take until this is the inevitable point-of-no-return. Only time will tell how far away that it.

chris_J2 · Joined: 17 Apr 2006 Location: From Brisbane, Au.

"The Georgian government just went mad . . . The Georgians came in and killed everyone. Who is guilty? It is Saakashvili. They burnt all the houses, and they even set fire to the school and all the hospitals. Nothing remains. It all happened in one instant," Ms Bessateva said. "They wanted to destroy the whole of South Ossetia in one night. All these villages they encircled and took."

Ms Bessateva said she and many other women, children and elderly eventually fled their village, leaving their men to fight Georgian tanks and foot soldiers. She still does not know what has happened to her son.

The troops that entered the village spoke in Georgian, she said, though she and a number of other refugees from the same village claimed they also spoke in languages they did not recognise."

"Many question too where the Georgians got the heavy artillery that had never been used before in the region. "During the war in 1992 they only fought with machine guns," said Zaira Khurayeva, a fellow villager. "And they used to warn us by telephoning to say they were coming to take the village."

"However, Ms Neistat said evidence was mounting that most of the destruction of Tskhinvali was caused by Georgians. The Georgians assert the city was levelled by the Russians."

"For women like Anna Kuzayeva, who spent two nights hiding in a cellar with 300 people and rotting corpses in Tskhinvali before being taken to the refugee camp by Russian soldiers, only one thing seems clear. "This war will continue," she said. "It's been going on in various ways for 15 years."

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3aa04cc8-6b11-11dd-b613-0000779fd18c.html?nclick_check=1

mithridates · Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:15 pm Post subject:

BIG surprise here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/13/georgia

Kimchi Cha Cha · Joined: 15 May 2003 Location: was Suncheon, now Brisbane

Yeah, it does look more and more like Saakashvili inexplicably decided to go full-tilt into South Ossetia and graze the place. He has been propped up by Western - especially US financial, military and increasingly possibly mercenary help. I don't know if we'll ever know why he decided to go so far in South Ossetia and whether he really thought the West would unequivocally support him even if it meant battle and direct confrontation with Russia.

I think the best case scenario in this messy affair is that North and South Ossetia to become a separate Rupublic, neither Georgia or Russia deserve it. I think the world owes that to them after letting their backyard become the lastest battlefiled in a political struggle between heavyweights.

Edit: I just don't know when happened it's all too messy and complicated! Sad

DCJames · Joined: 27 Jul 2006

mithridates · Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:30 am Post subject:

Nowhere Man · Joined: 08 Feb 2004

chris_J2 · Joined: 17 Apr 2006 Location: From Brisbane, Au.

Good news. Russia has signed the French initiative 6 point peace plan with Georgia.

contrarian · Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Location: Nearly in NK

It is nice to see the Yurpeens are taking the initiative. It is their oil and gas that gets cut off. Their holier than thou attitude needs adjusting.

regicide · Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Location: United States

Kimchi Cha Cha · Joined: 15 May 2003 Location: was Suncheon, now Brisbane

Kuros · Joined: 27 Apr 2004

contrarian · Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Location: Nearly in NK

I have no sympathy for the Chechyans nor for the Gerogians. They are the authors of their own misfortunes. I am a dedicated neocon but I disagree with many of the same on this.

One of the basics in Chechnya (and Kosovo and Bosnia) not to mention Israel is the refusal of non Muslims to live in an Islamic dominated society.

it goes far beyond Georgias present dispute with fellow orthodox Russia, who by the way supports Christian Armenia against Islamic Azherbaijan (and the Turks). Remember Russia's warning against the dismemberment of Serbia by autonomy to Kosovo - enforced by the US bombs.

Kosovo, Georgia and etc are Yurpeen problems, let them stop whining and do somethin.