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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Draz
Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Location: Land of Morning Clam
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 Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| moosehead wrote: |
and yes, I agree about going to the wrong place but Yongsan markets are too hot - anyway, it's almost always difficult for women to shop for electronics, has always been that way and probably always will be - K or anywhere else - many (most?) men see electronics as a male-dominated concept - but that's a whole other thread - |
What??? |
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princess
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: soul of Asia
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| moosehead wrote: |
was in Kyobo today - have been there many times - headed over to the section where they have books in E - don't know, haven't noticed it before but they have a big sign hanging over the entrance "Foreign Books"
it sort of rankled me a bit as I thought of other ways they could have described that section - such as "International Section" or "Books in English and other languages" (since it was noted under the sign that French, Spanish etc. were included)
most of the books in that section are in English; many are published in Korea so why should they be listed as "Foreign" just because they aren't in K?
I think this goes back to my underlying presumption that in general Ks have a rush to label anything/anyone as either Korean or Foreigner - which is very limiting of one's world view. too much black and white w/no room for the gray areas. |
They have this oh so wonderful "foreign" sign at Bandi and luni's in Coex Mall, too. I feel funny walking back to that section, like so many Koreans are thinking hahaha, look at the "foreign" girl walking back to the "foreign" books area.  |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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oskinny1
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Location: Right behind you!
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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Uh-oh, that wiki entry will get moosehead's blood boiling.
So what should be said in place of foreigner?
Edited for kindness. |
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moosehead
Joined: 05 May 2007
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| princess wrote: |
| moosehead wrote: |
was in Kyobo today - have been there many times - headed over to the section where they have books in E - don't know, haven't noticed it before but they have a big sign hanging over the entrance "Foreign Books"
it sort of rankled me a bit as I thought of other ways they could have described that section - such as "International Section" or "Books in English and other languages" (since it was noted under the sign that French, Spanish etc. were included)
most of the books in that section are in English; many are published in Korea so why should they be listed as "Foreign" just because they aren't in K?
I think this goes back to my underlying presumption that in general Ks have a rush to label anything/anyone as either Korean or Foreigner - which is very limiting of one's world view. too much black and white w/no room for the gray areas. |
They have this oh so wonderful "foreign" sign at Bandi and luni's in Coex Mall, too. I feel funny walking back to that section, like so many Koreans are thinking hahaha, look at the "foreign" girl walking back to the "foreign" books area. |
| oskinny1 wrote: |
Uh-oh, that wiki entry will get moosehead's blood boiling.
So what should be said in place of foreigner?
Edited for kindness. |
guess you must really feel like an arse now huh?? |
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moosehead
Joined: 05 May 2007
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:59 am Post subject: |
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| nate2008 wrote: |
| moosehead wrote: |
I think it's high time someone stood up and spoke out about using the word "foreigner" and how offensive it is.
back in the U.S. there are circumstances... |
Here's your problem Moose. You are trying to compare your experiences in the U.S. to how you think they should be in Korea, and when they don't align perfectly, you claim racism. It sounds like you have been in Korea for awhile, so I am kind of surprised you haven't caught on to this fact yet: you cannot compare one culture to another so easily, especially two cultures as drastically different as the U.S. and Korea.
Personally, I wouldn't be at all offended being called a Foreigner. After all, I am a person from one country living in another...is that not the very definition of "Foreigner"???
However, if you a person that IS offended being called a Foreigner...well, maybe you shouldn't have decided to come to Korea. The simple fact is that in Korea, the word "Foreigner" isn't politically incorrect. Some people may be using it offensively, but if they really wanted to, I'm sure they could come up with some words that are much more offensive and colorful than just "Foreigner".
Personally, I think you over-reacted and saw racism where none existed, simply because you are still trying to view Korea through American eyes. I know you are still going to say something along the lines of, "you are wrong! It had to have been racism, and this goes on all the time!" Well, I think you should just re-read this thread, and count the posts of people who agree with you, and people who think you are dead wrong. I'm pretty sure there are a LOT more of the latter than of the former, so you may want to rethink your perceptions. |
interestingly, I've never used the words "racist" or "racism" even once in this thread - if anything, I've spoken how there is confusion among Ks in the correct and proper use of the word "Foreign" and "Foreigner" and just how offensive it is to some people.
furthermore, I elaborated on how those of us who are E teachers might want to clarify the term and explain to students an acceptable usage of the word.
to further clarify for ignorant jerks like yourself, perhaps you aren't aware of how some years ago the word "sex" was considered so dirty and filthy (when used by Ks) it was pretty much akin to "F*ck" and could get students in trouble. It might even be seen scrawled as graffiti in some places. Clearly, there was an entire misunderstanding by the populace as to what the word meant and could be used for - as in gender determination which is frequently asked for on a mutlitude of forms to be completed, often by students.
over time as more E teachers arrived and were confronted with this situation there has gradually been a correction of the use and understanding of the word. I don't fear using it inadvertently any more and doubt it's still considered as unacceptable as it once was.
The word "crazy" is another one that has been misappropiated and used incorrectly but mostly it's pretty harmless so I, for one, don't worry too much about it even tho no doubt there are probably some who don't care for the way it's used here (I don't either but again, don't consider it a big issue).
on another note - this is intended specifically to "Nate2008" and any other people who respond using a similar style of writing:
on any discussion forum if you want people to respect you and your opinion, it's really best not to write so much with "you do this" and "you do that" and "your problem is..." - it's quite simplistic, amateurish and speaks volumes about how truly unaware such a person is of the world around them. The person might indeed, have a college education but that doesn't mean it is being used in the best possible way. It also denotes quite a bit of arrogance and close-mindedness.
It's also unwise to state someone said something they never did say - anyone reading the thread can easily see this is incorrect and again, it makes one look like the fool for either not reading correctly (poor comprehension) or attempting to deliberately distort another person's statements.
With all that in mind, I welcome further discussion on this topic and thoughts and comments from those who have something intelligent to say as opposed to those who are only trying to deflect from the subject at hand and make this about me. It's not about me, not at all. It's about expanding on our positions here as ESL teachers and the impact we can truly have on a society which is so closed when it comes to understanding other cultures.
moreover, I see nothing at all wrong with "seeing through American eyes" since for one thing, I AM an American and for everything that might be wrong with America, there are certainly a lot of good things - and one of those is the incredible diversity that exists, the mulitude of cultures and languages and the laws that are in place to protect the citizens, no matter where they are from.
Simply because I embrace other cultures does not mean I expect others to embrace mine - however - I've traveled to quite a few countries and the one statement (sometimes a question) I always heard was "I want to go to America" or "how can I go to America."
It's certainly no different here as we all know - and if so many folks want to come to America, I certainly don't see any problem in explaining the various uses and understanding of the word "Foreigner." Certainly it can only serve to better the understanding of ALL cultures, not just America's.
Peace |
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oskinny1
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Location: Right behind you!
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:43 am Post subject: |
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| moosehead wrote: |
| princess wrote: |
| moosehead wrote: |
was in Kyobo today - have been there many times - headed over to the section where they have books in E - don't know, haven't noticed it before but they have a big sign hanging over the entrance "Foreign Books"
it sort of rankled me a bit as I thought of other ways they could have described that section - such as "International Section" or "Books in English and other languages" (since it was noted under the sign that French, Spanish etc. were included)
most of the books in that section are in English; many are published in Korea so why should they be listed as "Foreign" just because they aren't in K?
I think this goes back to my underlying presumption that in general Ks have a rush to label anything/anyone as either Korean or Foreigner - which is very limiting of one's world view. too much black and white w/no room for the gray areas. |
They have this oh so wonderful "foreign" sign at Bandi and luni's in Coex Mall, too. I feel funny walking back to that section, like so many Koreans are thinking hahaha, look at the "foreign" girl walking back to the "foreign" books area. |
| oskinny1 wrote: |
Uh-oh, that wiki entry will get moosehead's blood boiling.
So what should be said in place of foreigner?
Edited for kindness. |
guess you must really feel like an arse now huh?? |
Not at all. You didn't answer the question. I asked what would you use in place of "foreigner", not "foreign". |
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chasmmi
Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Location: Ulsan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:54 am Post subject: |
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Slightly deviated I know but is the term foreigner seriously seen as offensive in America.
Sorry, it's just that I come from Britain and there it is just a term to describe somebody who is not British. We have foreign food sections in supermarkets, foreign film seasons on TV and in cinemas. Foreign and foreigner are you all the time.
Thus I have no problem with Koreans using it. Are there people here who when they see the word 외국 written read it as something other than foreign? |
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frozenpeas
Joined: 23 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:03 am Post subject: |
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I've found Korea to be the only country in Asia where being a foreigner is actually an advantage to bargaining.
I've had plenty of discounts and freebies, and perhaps been ripped off once or twice in the 3 years I've been here.
It was a total shock, coming from places like China and Thailand, where you EXPECT everyone to rip you off and have to take quite an aggressive attitude. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:51 am Post subject: |
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| It happened to me with a cell phone when I first got here. One with TV was 20,000 won, but I needed a certain card or contract or something that I couldn't get. |
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Kevtron
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| frozenpeas wrote: |
I've found Korea to be the only country in Asia where being a foreigner is actually an advantage to bargaining.
I've had plenty of discounts and freebies, and perhaps been ripped off once or twice in the 3 years I've been here.
It was a total shock, coming from places like China and Thailand, where you EXPECT everyone to rip you off and have to take quite an aggressive attitude. |
Though I can't yet compare most of the rest of Asia I've found some similar things here. Hell there is a coffee shop near me that has a 'foreigner discount'. |
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