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IncognitoHFX
Joined: 06 May 2007
Location: Yeongtong, Suwon
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 Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| komtengi wrote: |
In Charlies Angels there is a scene when the postman comes to deliver a package, and Diaz says something along the lines of "I signed a waiver, so you can just stick it in my box", these double meanings have no way of being translated.
A reason that Austin Powers went so badly over here |
...and why Koreans don't think the Simpsons is funny, if they've even heard of it. Which is a crying shame considering most of the mid-seasons were animated here! |
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ajuma
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Location: Anywere but Seoul!!
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
| ajuma wrote: |
A Korean friend of mine who does a lot of movie and TV translating to improve his English told me that it took him a LONG time to realize that when someone says "Roger" it means "I understand" , NOT a person's name!!!  |
Tower voice: Flight 2-0-9'er cleared for vector 324.
Roger Murdock: We have clearance, Clarence.
Captain Oveur: Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?
(BTW, did you tell your friend that "roger" down under means something entirely different? eg. She needs a good rogering is what she needs!) |
No, because I've never heard it used that way. It means....? |
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crazy_arcade
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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A lot of humor doesn't translate well into subtitles, especially puns.
When watching Korean movies with my girlfriend, she'll be laughing hysterically, and I won't be laughing at all. Vice versa for English comedies.
In Korean translations of movies I tend to find a lot of censorship.
Most swear words are translated simply as " bad" or "crazy." From this, we then get students who think "f$$k" and "Assh%%e" aren't very bad and fine for use in class....
As a side, did anyone else notice way too many young children in "Dark Knight." |
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IncognitoHFX
Joined: 06 May 2007
Location: Yeongtong, Suwon
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| crazy_arcade wrote: |
As a side, did anyone else notice way too many young children in "Dark Knight." |
Not particularly, but when I ran it past a few Korean friends (that I was planning to see the movie) they exclaimed: "but it's a children's movie! Why would you go and see a movie for children?" They were under the impression that Batman = for kids.
That movie had to censor itself in order to avoid the R rating when it was in production, so I can only imagine what will happen when some elementary class goes and sees the movie on a feild trip |
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Confused Canadian
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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FYI, there is one guy that does about 85% of all theater release translations (Lee Mi Do / 이미도). He's well known for making up his own jokes and changing dialogue where he feels it is 'appropriate'. He thinks it's more important for the audience to enjoy the 'flow' of the movie, rather than to have an 'accurate' translation of the movie. He's popular and continues to get work because most Korean audiences don't understand enough English to know that they're not getting an accurate translation. Those that do understand English fairly well usually don't care for him much.
Movies get 're-translated' for each different release. Lee Mi Do translates "Movie A" for the theater. Another person will translate it for DVD release. If the movie makes it to TV (i.e. Catch On, OCN, etc) it will be translated yet again. A few years ago when VHS was still used, movies were translated for VHS, and then again for DVD. The translators don't refer to previous works, as that's often more time consuming than translating it directly. Each format has a different 'character count' (the number of characters that appear on the screen at one time).
People who translate DVD and TV releases are usually given 2-3 days maximum to translate a movie. Payment is usually based on time, not dialogue. So, if you translate a 90 minute action movie and a 90 minute love story, even though the love story has lots more dialogue, you'll get paid the same amount, roughly 300,000 won / movie.
As for inaccurate swearing...translators have no choice. They are told to use the 'generic' terms. Even if they are 'bold' enough to use something more 'creative', the editors will change it before it gets to release.
And yes, translating humor is very difficult, if not impossible. This is true of not only English-to-Korean translation, but of almost all language translations. For example, the kids joke "What is black and white and read/red all over?" "A newspaper" only works if the past tense for 'read' and the color 'red' are the same in the target language. I'm no linguist, but I don't know of any languages where those two words are the same.
All that being said, yes, there are some horrible translations out there. I don't understand the number mistakes. Translators are given transcripts to work from, and the numbers appear in 'digit format'. All that has to be done is to copy those numbers. The only explanations I can offer are a) carelessness or b) inaccurate transcripts. And then there are people that don't have a strong enough grasp of English to get idiomatic expressions and slang. Many translators are working on a deadline. If they don't understand something, they often don't have time to ask a native speaker what the expression means. However, they need to 'translate' something, so they often make something up. They assume that if they don't know what it means, most of the Koreans reading the subtitles won't catch their mistake either.
Translation takes time and practice. Translating books and translating movies are two very different fields. Movie and TV translation are not very well paid fields, and translators are not given enough time to do a good job.
On the other hand, Lee Mi Do is living the lifestyle. He makes somewhere in the neighborhood of 2,000,000 won per movie. |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| ajuma wrote: |
| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
| (BTW, did you tell your friend that "roger" down under means something entirely different? eg. She needs a good rogering is what she needs!) |
No, because I've never heard it used that way. It means....? |
*bleep*. (Mod Edit)
| IncognitoHFX wrote: |
| crazy_arcade wrote: |
As a side, did anyone else notice way too many young children in "Dark Knight." |
Not particularly, but when I ran it past a few Korean friends (that I was planning to see the movie) they exclaimed: "but it's a children's movie! Why would you go and see a movie for children?" They were under the impression that Batman = for kids. |
Many parents are clueless and/or inconsiderate to those around them (both here and back home). Plenty of times I've seen toddlers or babies being brought into midnight showings. How many children under 5 did I see at Lord of the Rings... they couldn't sit still and shut up for 10 minutes nevermind 3 hours. Then there are movies like Saw. Great movie for kids.  (The Harry Potter movies at this point aren't kid-friendly either for that matter) |
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oskinny1
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Location: Right behind you!
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| ajuma wrote: |
| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
| ajuma wrote: |
| A Korean friend of mine who does a lot of movie and TV translating to improve his English told me that it took him a LONG time to realize that when someone says "Roger" it means "I understand" , NOT a person's name!!! |
Tower voice: Flight 2-0-9'er cleared for vector 324.
Roger Murdock: We have clearance, Clarence.
Captain Oveur: Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?
(BTW, did you tell your friend that "roger" down under means something entirely different? eg. She needs a good rogering is what she needs!) |
No, because I've never heard it used that way. It means....? |
Since Young Frank got censored...
It means "to make love" or "the act a man's dirty bit goes inside a woman's dirty bit in the sole hope of producing one of God's children".
That is why Roger Moore has such a great name! |
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komtengi
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Location: Slummin it up in Haebangchon
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| crazy_arcade wrote: |
As a side, did anyone else notice way too many young children in "Dark Knight." |
way too many |
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Newbie
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| crazy_arcade wrote: |
Most swear words are translated simply as " bad" or "crazy." From this, we then get students who think "f$$k" and "Assh%%e" aren't very bad and fine for use in class....
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That drives me up the wall.
Another annoying one is when the movie is clearly talking about the big Catholic Church (sung-dang in Korean), but the translators use the "other" church (kyo-hae). It completely screws up the historical importance and significance of Catholicism vs. Protestanism. I know, it shouldn't bug me, but it does. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| Confused Canadian wrote: |
FYI, there is one guy that does about 85% of all theater release translations (Lee Mi Do / 이미도). He's well known for making up his own jokes and changing dialogue where he feels it is 'appropriate'. He thinks it's more important for the audience to enjoy the 'flow' of the movie, rather than to have an 'accurate' translation of the movie. He's popular and continues to get work because most Korean audiences don't understand enough English to know that they're not getting an accurate translation. Those that do understand English fairly well usually don't care for him much.
Movies get 're-translated' for each different release. Lee Mi Do translates "Movie A" for the theater. Another person will translate it for DVD release. If the movie makes it to TV (i.e. Catch On, OCN, etc) it will be translated yet again. A few years ago when VHS was still used, movies were translated for VHS, and then again for DVD. The translators don't refer to previous works, as that's often more time consuming than translating it directly. Each format has a different 'character count' (the number of characters that appear on the screen at one time).
People who translate DVD and TV releases are usually given 2-3 days maximum to translate a movie. Payment is usually based on time, not dialogue. So, if you translate a 90 minute action movie and a 90 minute love story, even though the love story has lots more dialogue, you'll get paid the same amount, roughly 300,000 won / movie.
As for inaccurate swearing...translators have no choice. They are told to use the 'generic' terms. Even if they are 'bold' enough to use something more 'creative', the editors will change it before it gets to release.
And yes, translating humor is very difficult, if not impossible. This is true of not only English-to-Korean translation, but of almost all language translations. For example, the kids joke "What is black and white and read/red all over?" "A newspaper" only works if the past tense for 'read' and the color 'red' are the same in the target language. I'm no linguist, but I don't know of any languages where those two words are the same.
All that being said, yes, there are some horrible translations out there. I don't understand the number mistakes. Translators are given transcripts to work from, and the numbers appear in 'digit format'. All that has to be done is to copy those numbers. The only explanations I can offer are a) carelessness or b) inaccurate transcripts. And then there are people that don't have a strong enough grasp of English to get idiomatic expressions and slang. Many translators are working on a deadline. If they don't understand something, they often don't have time to ask a native speaker what the expression means. However, they need to 'translate' something, so they often make something up. They assume that if they don't know what it means, most of the Koreans reading the subtitles won't catch their mistake either.
Translation takes time and practice. Translating books and translating movies are two very different fields. Movie and TV translation are not very well paid fields, and translators are not given enough time to do a good job.
On the other hand, Lee Mi Do is living the lifestyle. He makes somewhere in the neighborhood of 2,000,000 won per movie. |
Quoted for emphasis, though Lee Mi Do I do not know. Just heard that movies are untouchables upon mention at my last job. Again, quoted for emphasis, sums everything up on both ends rather nicely. If you think you can do better with a deadline editing shitty subtitles for TV shows, I've got a great part-time job for you... |
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komtengi
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Location: Slummin it up in Haebangchon
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Im pretty confident I could do a good job doing subs...
its the word count that would kill me |
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billybrobby
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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I think they don't translate curse words because they are correctly compensating for the relative shock value that the words have in the different cultures. If they translated every f-bomb in the shippal, it'd make some of the american characters seem outrageously, ridiculously crude.
I also think shortened subtitles are ideal. You really miss quite a lot of a movie's visuals when you're reading subtitles, especially with all the new-fangled quick cuts they make these days.
You ever been in a theater and the subtitle was way funnier than the english joke? I've had that happen a few times. |
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komtengi
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Location: Slummin it up in Haebangchon
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| billybrobby wrote: |
You ever been in a theater and the subtitle was way funnier than the english joke? I've had that happen a few times. |
sometimes its not even the joke, but the slang or term that is used |
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IncognitoHFX
Joined: 06 May 2007
Location: Yeongtong, Suwon
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| komtengi wrote: |
| billybrobby wrote: |
You ever been in a theater and the subtitle was way funnier than the english joke? I've had that happen a few times. |
sometimes its not even the joke, but the slang or term that is used |
Yes, like when the word "terrorist" was translated into "Taliban" in Korean. I laughed out loud at that. |
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Confused Canadian
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:22 am Post subject: |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
| Quoted for emphasis, though Lee Mi Do I do not know. Just heard that movies are untouchables upon mention at my last job. Again, quoted for emphasis, sums everything up on both ends rather nicely. If you think you can do better with a deadline editing shitty subtitles for TV shows, I've got a great part-time job for you... |
You bring up a good point. Even when companies get a native speaker to proofread the subtitles, it's often done through e-mail. So, you get a file, and if they line doesn't make sense (grammatically or otherwise), you have to do your best to fix it 'blind'. More often than not, you don't have the luxury of asking the translator to explain what they were trying to say. Proofreaders often have a short deadline too.
Also, many translators work from home, so they don't have the ability to ask co-workers or native speakers to explain slang or idioms. Not to mention, you have to become an 'expert' in jargon when you translate certain movies. Watch an episode of ER. Imagine trying to explain EVERY SINGLE WORD used in the show, including medical jargon, abbreviations, etc.
Ex:
Malucci: Pulse is weak.
Kerry: Spin a crit right away.
or
Luka: No, 10 liters by mask for now. Send a trauma panel, type and cross for 4, and get X-ray in here for a chest. And a one shot IVP.
As a native speaker, I can get the gist of what's being said in the second example (give him oxygen, run a bunch of tests, X-ray him, and I assume something about an IV), but I have no idea what the first one means. After surfing the internet for a while, you'd probably be able to make sense of these examples and understand what those lines mean. Now, you just have to find the correct terms to use in the target language. 
Now, your next job is to translate an episode of Numb3rs. All the math theory in those episodes is something we ALL easily understand, right? It might be that there are only 5-10 lines of math theory, but you've got to figure out what they mean, and then again, find the proper terms in the target language. Sometimes, those 5-10 lines can take almost as much time and effort as the rest of the simple dialogue from the script.
With more time, more money, and a bit of effort, the industry could be greatly improved. Of course, that can be said of a number of industries. I don't expect anything to change soon. |
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