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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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 Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:42 am Post subject: |
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| bassexpander wrote: |
| Zyzyfer wrote: |
| gangpae wrote: |
| A piece of advice, if I may ...... These interviews with "sensitive" guys suck. Try to find someone who drinks beer. |
Mmmm, beer. |
Actually, Zyzyfer did come up in the conversation off-mike...  |
Hopefully the topic was all the beer I drink. |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:04 am Post subject: |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
| bassexpander wrote: |
| Zyzyfer wrote: |
| gangpae wrote: |
| A piece of advice, if I may ...... These interviews with "sensitive" guys suck. Try to find someone who drinks beer. |
Mmmm, beer. |
Actually, Zyzyfer did come up in the conversation off-mike... |
Hopefully the topic was all the beer I drink. |
Actually, we were talking about Dave's parties, and whom we'd met over the years. |
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tfunk
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:17 am Post subject: .. |
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I think that if I was choosing a counselor it would be somebody I could feel comfortably with emotionally and intellectually. Normally, I wouldn't feel comfortable with a person that is strongly attached to a religious perspective, but I can see how people of a same faith background could.
I'm not saying all religious people are stupid, I'm saying that their way of making sense of the world tends to be different.
Matthew says: "In order for somebody to enter the kingdom of God, they must become like a little child..."
Peppered references that are flipped out of context like this, in this case associating a sentence from the Bible to modern psychological theories about the development of personality, really bug me. The text of the Bible is like a Rorschach blot and any number of meanings can be projected upon it (and often are) but none of them have give any workable insight into their subject matter. |
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Harpeau
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Location: Coquitlam, BC
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| skconqueror wrote: |
I still have a problem with his advocating dishonestly and giving fraudulent information to immigration.
He might have gave the "small" blurb about his professional stance, but it is more than obvious that he condones and actually promotes lying about psychiatric backgrounds and or medications on the podcast.
Having the person judge about how they are doing is not only stupid, but also unethical for a mental health professional. Especially after talking about the additional pressure and or unique problems in Korea. How could one realistically know how they would react.
I am curious what immigration would think about a mental health professional in Korea offering that kind of "personal / professional" advice to future expats coming to Korea.
Also, in regards to bassexpander, there is no regulations governing "counselors" in Canada. ANYONE can hang a sign up and say they are a counselor. The same can not said about a licensed Psychologist. There are strict guidelines and accountability. |
I think some of your concerns are very good. About the personal/professional~ the context that was on my mind was a client who was in a public school. Went through a rough 6 months with lots of problems. Finally saw a psychiatrist and received a prescription of meds. He sent this individual to me to work with. This person improved over the coming weeks. They worked hard and seemed to do much better. Turns out that a few months later that the public school would not renew the contract because of the medication. The teacher ended up going back home.
IMHO, there is something wrong with that picture. I also think that there is a double standard. Many Koreans teachers and other employees do not tell their employer what meds they're taking out of a fear that they will lose their jobs. Many Korean teachers do not use insurance to buy their medication, but rather pay hard cash at the psychiatrist office and ask them to not chart it, because they don't want it on their work record. Also, many people living in Apkujong go to a therapist in Ilsan and Mokdong so their neighbors don't get wind of it. I'm not saying that it's good or bad, just that's the way things are in Korea. |
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SHANE02
Joined: 04 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:50 am Post subject: |
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| Yes. In the west it's bad enough telling someone your on anti-depressants for example. However, the stigma associated with mental health in the west is beginning to be dealt with. In Korea it's a whole other story. |
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skconqueror
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| bassexpander wrote: |
By the way, a lot of "certified" teachers would take issue with many of us calling ourselves teachers. Sounds a lot like your counseling argument, skconq. Maybe 95% of us should hang it up and go home because there are certified teachers elsewhere in the world? The difference is that Harpeau is qualified to practice back home. Technically, as a teacher, few of us here are actually qualified to do so back home.
With his degree, Harpeau is qualified to counsel, and I feel pretty much the same as Yu Bum Suk mentioned. |
Apples / oranges Where once did I claim to be a "certified teacher?"
I am actually classified as a "teacher's assistant" (as I work at a public school).. and with a B.A I am entitled to the same position at a public school back home.
How exactly does that relate to the fact that counselors do NOT have to be certified (unlike licensed Psychologists)? Anyone can put up a sign saying they are a "counselor"... in Canada there is NO regulation.
So once again how do they relate?
The most important part of my issue though (which you totally disregarded for whatever reason) was the fact that falsifying government documentation (for a good reason or not) is still illegal in Canada as well as in South Korea. How can you condone that? |
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skconqueror
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| Harpeau wrote: |
I think some of your concerns are very good. About the personal/professional~ the context that was on my mind was a client who was in a public school. Went through a rough 6 months with lots of problems. Finally saw a psychiatrist and received a prescription of meds. He sent this individual to me to work with. This person improved over the coming weeks. They worked hard and seemed to do much better. Turns out that a few months later that the public school would not renew the contract because of the medication. The teacher ended up going back home.
IMHO, there is something wrong with that picture. I also think that there is a double standard. Many Koreans teachers and other employees do not tell their employer what meds they're taking out of a fear that they will lose their jobs. Many Korean teachers do not use insurance to buy their medication, but rather pay hard cash at the psychiatrist office and ask them to not chart it, because they don't want it on their work record. Also, many people living in Apkujong go to a therapist in Ilsan and Mokdong so their neighbors don't get wind of it. I'm not saying that it's good or bad, just that's the way things are in Korea. |
This is not the first time we have had this discussion, and you said / say it with a big broad paint brush. You do not saying on special instances, you clearly say if the person "feels" they are doing well mentally then it would be ok to commit a crime. I feel there is something ethically wrong with that. Fair or not, these are the laws and the regulations of South Korea.
I do understand that some cases are sketchy, but as a paid mental health professional (and man of God) you should be held to the highest possible ethical standard. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| bassexpander wrote: |
| Actually, we were talking about Dave's parties, and whom we'd met over the years. |
Nah, figured that. Was just runnin' with the ball. |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| skconqueror wrote: |
| bassexpander wrote: |
By the way, a lot of "certified" teachers would take issue with many of us calling ourselves teachers. Sounds a lot like your counseling argument, skconq. Maybe 95% of us should hang it up and go home because there are certified teachers elsewhere in the world? The difference is that Harpeau is qualified to practice back home. Technically, as a teacher, few of us here are actually qualified to do so back home.
With his degree, Harpeau is qualified to counsel, and I feel pretty much the same as Yu Bum Suk mentioned. |
How exactly does that relate to the fact that counselors do NOT have to be certified (unlike licensed Psychologists)? Anyone can put up a sign saying they are a "counselor"... in Canada there is NO regulation.
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So it comes down to a philosophical debate, then. You're background is in clinical psychology, right? You're an intelligent guy, and it is understandable that you would have a bias.
If the Canadian gov't felt there was just cause that everyone should be a clinical psychologist before giving any form of counseling, doesn't it stand to reason that they would have regulated it as such?
The truth is that many people simply do not share your opinion -- apparently, the Canadian and American governments do not, either. They believe that people like pastors, priests, and those trained as such., are schooled enough to provide counseling to others. Heck, the counselor at my high school was not a trained clinical psychologist.
Personally, if I were in really dire straits, I'd go to a clinical psychologist. If I just needed someone to talk to, I'd prefer a counselor (and in Korea, I'd probably face less risk of having it on my record for doing so, possibly costing an E-2 visa if I were an E-2).
And your attempts to libel Harpeau to make him sound as if he is an illegal counselor of some sort is quite disappointing. As for others, I just hate to see people slander a good person whom they've never met just because the guy is trying to help people. Gosh forbid someone should try to rise above the crab pot mentality of some others around here (not directed at you, SK). |
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Pooty
Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Location: Ela stin agalia mou
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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Seems like everyone that you interview gets some kind of backlash by a few people that either don't like the person because of some previous online or real life interactions Bassman....
I know for sure that I don't want to interview with you now...just imagine what they'd say about me if I revealed some juicy details about the massage chairs and sleeping rooms in my R&D center! Not to mention the room salon and massage girls we visit every week  |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Pooty wrote: |
Seems like everyone that you interview gets some kind of backlash by a few people that either don't like the person because of some previous online or real life interactions Bassman....
I know for sure that I don't want to interview with you now...just imagine what they'd say about me if I revealed some juicy details about the massage chairs and sleeping rooms in my R&D center! Not to mention the room salon and massage girls we visit every week |
It's the crab-pot mentality.
Some people appear to be jealous of those who are making more out of themselves in Korea. |
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skconqueror
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| bassexpander wrote: |
So it comes down to a philosophical debate, then. You're background is in clinical psychology, right? You're an intelligent guy, and it is understandable that you would have a bias. |
Yep
| bassexpander wrote: |
If the Canadian gov't felt there was just cause that everyone should be a clinical psychologist before giving any form of counseling, doesn't it stand to reason that they would have regulated it as such? |
Agreed
| bassexpander wrote: |
The truth is that many people simply do not share your opinion -- apparently, the Canadian and American governments do not, either. They believe that people like pastors, priests, and those trained as such., are schooled enough to provide counseling to others. Heck, the counselor at my high school was not a trained clinical psychologist. |
In most public schools, in Canada at least, they have a guidance counselor, but also a school psychologist (at least one per 4-5 schools).
| bassexpander wrote: |
And your attempts to libel Harpeau to make him sound as if he is an illegal counselor of some sort is quite disappointing. As for others, I just hate to see people slander a good person whom they've never met just because the guy is trying to help people. Gosh forbid someone should try to rise above the crab pot mentality of some others around here (not directed at you, SK). |
He is not an illegal counselor, he has the same right as anyone else to counsel as there is no regulation. The issue I have is with what I see as unethical practice. I will never agree that a professionally trained counselor (and self professed man of God) can ethically tell someone it would be ok to lie on an official government document. Other than that, I couldn't care less what he did. |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| skconqueror wrote: |
He is not an illegal counselor, he has the same right as anyone else to counsel as there is no regulation. The issue I have is with what I see as unethical practice. I will never agree that a professionally trained counselor (and self professed man of God) can ethically tell someone it would be ok to lie on an official government document. Other than that, I couldn't care less what he did. |
I wonder how many other counselors and yes, even clinical psychologists, would also state that a person's medical history is a personal thing? You make him sound like a criminal for feeling that way.
Keep in mind that if you took medication prescribed by a physician for a break-up 10 years in your past, and mentioned that on the E-2 form, you wouldn't be allowed an E-2 visa.
Knowing that, it's easy to understand why someone might feel it's an unfair disclosure.
Anyone who wishes to hear what he said about it can listen to the podcast. |
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agoodmouse
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Location: Anyang
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| I know public schools ask about mental illnesses, but I don't remember the E2 visa process as asking for it. Does it? As the two are tied together, at least if someone is going the public school route, I guess one would ask if the other doesn't. |
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gangpae
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Let's face facts folks, if someone was trying to make something of their life they wouldn't be teaching English in Korea. Interviews with ESL slackers has the same entertainment value as watching coffee cooling. That being said keep them coming as they offer the potential of a great train wreck. |
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