Korean Job Discussion Forums

[nateium]

Very interesting R-teacher!!

Did you know the word MumboJumbo is derived from a masked figure among Mandingo peoples of western Africa?
In contemporary English it means an "unnecessarily involved and incomprehensible language, behavior, or beliefs based on superstition."

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mumbo%20jumbo

[itaewonguy]

[dpl]

i been followin this thread for awhile now and it's totally amusing. Rteacher s full of mumbo jumbo. His whole argument seems to be that because the Vedic tradition is so old it must be true. Well then I guess vampires and monsters are real too since there is a long tradition of folklore in all cultures about them. That stuff is such a pile of nonsense.

Itaewon guy I can totally relate to you. I was exactly like you for many many years. I was raised as a Christian and fought long and hard defending religion and God against atheists. As I got older, went to university, and studied on my own though I realized all of my arguments were total hogwash. All organized man made religion is nonsense - pure and simple. Science doesn't claim to have all the answers as you constantly say but it has provided a lot of them. Just because we don't know what started life/the universe etc. or just because we don't know the first cause/causes of everything is no reason to assume a selfcreated/infinite being is behind it all. That's as ludicrous as ancient people thinking because it hadn't rained in awhile they should sacrifice someone. It makes no sense.

I feel much better and am more at peace now that I am free of religion. God to me is simply a metaphor for the wonders of nature. I don't label myself as anything except for non-religious. I agree we know barely anything about what we want to know but that's no reason to assume we are her because of magic. Again I feel for you cause I been there man.

[nateium]

[Bagpipes11]

Itaewon guy,
Just like the picture of the guy playing guitar in your avatar. It isn't soundwaves making those sounds from a guitar. It is God.

[Rteacher]

While some "mumbo-jumbo" may be found in materialistic religions in the mode of ignorance (and in "scientific" jargon) the Vedantic tradition clearly aims at understanding Absolute Truth - defined as that from which - or from whom - everything (material and spiritual) emanates.

The Vedic conclusion is that the Absolute Truth can be known in three stages of realization: impersonal, localized, and personal.

Empirical, speculative methods can at most help us to understand the external, impersonal feature.

The highest, personal feature is realizable only through a pure devotional (bhakti) process.

The wonders of nature visible in our insignicant universe amount to but a small spark of the creative energy of God.

This isn't speculative assertion - which of course would have little value - but is part of the transcendental message originally spoken by Krishna and conveyed by pure devotees in disciplic succession.

Materially conditioned, limited, imperfect persons naturally have a hard time accepting that the Absolute Truth can be a sentient, unlimitedly powerful, intelligent, completely perfect Original Person, which is why association with self-realized souls is a practical requisite for developing faith and making progress on the spiritual path.

Somehow I was fortunate enough in this life to contact a pure devotee of Krishna, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, and I was able to at least begin the bhakti yoga process (ensuring that I won't fall back to a lower species in the evolutionary cycle my next life).

Since I still have some nonsensical material attachments, it may take me more than one-or-two lifetimes to reach the devotionally perfected stage, but I'm confident that I'll ultimately be able to see the Absolute Truth face-to-face.

[dpl]

Ok Rteacher. You gotta help me out.

This isn't speculative assertion - which of course would have little value - but is part of the transcendental message originally spoken by Krishna and conveyed by pure devotees in disciplic succession.


How is this not speculative?

Since I still have some nonsensical material attachments, it may take me more than one-or-two lifetimes to reach the devotionally perfected stage, but I'm confident that I'll ultimately be able to see the Absolute Truth face-to-face

How will you ever know if you see the absolute truth. According to your "traditions" I would assume that everyone currently on the planet, including yourself, is on who knows what life. I have no recollection of any former life and neither does anyone I have ever met.

Can you recall your former lives? As a person, elephant, gecko, spider, amoeba?

My point is the following: even if the Vedic word is bang on, it won't be you getting to see and know the Absolute Truth. It will be someone else. You and your conciousness that will die and cease to exist when your time comes will never know. If you can offer some way to "know" your past lives that isn't mumbo jumbo I'd be very interested to hear it.

[Underwaterbob]

[Rteacher]

There's mundane speculation based on empirical methods (or imagination), and there's transcendental speculation based on scripture.

I don't claim to be free of the mundane variety, but I usually don't include that kind of speculation in my posts on spiritual topics.

According to the Vedic version, only the gross physical body is vanquished at death. The subtle body (consisting of mind, intelligence, and ego) carries the soul to its next body - which can be either material or spiritual, depending on one's purity of consciousness.

If it's destined for another material body, memory of the previous life is usually wiped out by the trauma of birth, but there is recollection of previous births and deaths by the living entity in the womb prior to taking birth.

In Bhagavad-gita, Krishna claims to be the source of all knowledge, remembrance, and forgetfulness, and as Paramatma (Supersoul) He accompanies every individual soul throughout the transmigratory evolutionary cycle of millions of species.

Although impersonalist trancendentalists desire to merge into the existence of God, pure devotees never accept that form of liberation, eternally reciprocating as individuals with the Supreme Person in varieties of transcendental loving relationships (rasa)

Of course, some people - especially children - have claimed to have past-life rembrances, and this has been scientifically studied, most notably by the late Ian Stevenson.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Stevenson
http://redpill.dailygrail.com/wiki/Ian_Stevenson
http://www.harekrishna.com/col/books/kr/cb/chapter5.html

[itaewonguy]

[Underwaterbob]

[Underwaterbob]

[dpl]

[itaewonguy]

[itaewonguy]