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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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 Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:48 am Post subject: |
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Fiscal Conservatives should not vote Republican. But Obama will not be like Bill Clinton, although at least he will raise tax revenue to support his glut of social spending.
*sigh* |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:30 am Post subject: ... |
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Couldn't he just kill the not-really-accounted-for mega-spending going into Iraq that was supposed to pay for itself?
Iraq is spending something like 5% on improvements?
We're giving out interest on Iraqi money just sitting in our coffers?
But go on. What's your prediction for the budget a year from now? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:10 am Post subject: |
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When it comes time to write the history of the last 40 years, the GOP will go down as the party that spent money to benefit its political ambitions; the Democrats will be seen as the party that spent money to benefit the country.
One of my favorite words is 'fritter'. No, not corn fritters. 'Fritter' used as a verb. US preeminence was frittered away by the governing party to serve its ideological wet dreams. The Clinton years saw a once-in-a generation technological revolution that put gold in the US bank. Where is it now? |
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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| You can't forget about the Congress. Reagen was able to cut taxes but had a difficult time trying to cut spending with a Democratic Congress. As for Bill Clinton, he had to contend with Newt Gingrich's Republican Congress. They effectively cut federal spending to 18.2% per GDP at its lowest point which resulted in a surplus. As for Bush jr. and the Republican Congress... well, all I can say is that no one should be surprised if the Dems rack up more seats in Congress and Barrack Obama wins the presidency. The Republicans have been going against their principles of small government and deserve the political wilderness until they get a clue. |
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Bryan
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| When it comes time to write the history of the last 40 years, the GOP will go down as the party that spent money to benefit its political ambitions; the Democrats will be seen as the party that spent money to benefit the country. |
You can't spend taxpayer money and benefit the country at the same time, except for maybe the legitimate functions of government: police, courts, and the military. Hopefully when we look back on history in the future, historians will have a better knowledge of economics. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
Couldn't he just kill the not-really-accounted-for mega-spending going into Iraq that was supposed to pay for itself?
Iraq is spending something like 5% on improvements?
We're giving out interest on Iraqi money just sitting in our coffers?
But go on. What's your prediction for the budget a year from now? |
The war in Iraq will end within two years (as far as the U.S. is concerned) under either Obama or McCain. Both will withdraw within that time period. But, yes, not outlaying those funds will help a bit. But recall, some of those funds saved will go towards that other war.
My prediction is that the debt stays pretty massive, and the entitlement outlays spanning the next three or four decades will hurt our economy dreadfully. The political system is incapable of handling the fiscal tsunami that looms. The only difference is with Barack we'll at least have competent leadership until we get to the real suffering. |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
Fiscal Conservatives should not vote Republican. But Obama will not be like Bill Clinton, although at least he will raise tax revenue to support his glut of social spending.
*sigh* |
You have to keep in mind that a number of social programs are essentially long term investments. Investing in education and increasing the wealth level of the poorer people in our society increases the overall wealth level in the society. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| The Republicans have been going against their principles of small government and deserve the political wilderness until they get a clue. |
What principles? At what point in the 40 years of consistent behavior is it fair to say the behavior is the principle?
It's also ignoring reality to blame Congress. While Congress was originally the most powerful branch, it hasn't been true in our lifetimes. The modern presidency plays an enormous legislative role, starting with the State of Union address setting the agenda backed up by media focus on the White House.
I also disagree about Social Security. It is a type of investment. Reduce the income of a huge chunk of the public and you reduce the number of consumers. Fewer consumers equals weaker businesses. It would also shove financial responsibility back on families who have not been prepared for that responsibility. Are you prepared to see and ignore millions of homeless elderly?
One place we can look to save money that could be reallocated in a more productive place is defense. It's one thing to have a military ready to defend the country. It's another definition of defense entirely when it means the capacity to invade countries on the other side of the world. How many countries do we have bases in? World War II is long over. There are no countries out there with plans to take over the world. There are regional powers who could take on the burden, militarily and financially. It might also go some way in restoring our tattered reputation. |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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What do you suggest? Soylent geezer?
Seriously, though, the only real option is socialized medicine. There's no way around it. We've dug a hole for ourselves because we haven't invested in education and technology to the degree we should have. We've wasted both money and standing on unnecessary wars. We're in a hole, it's going to get deeper, but we'd be better off spending a bit more now to get completely out of the hole in the next decade or two than ignoring the hole until we end up in China, or China ends up here. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Czarjorge wrote: |
What do you suggest? Soylent geezer?
Seriously, though, the only real option is socialized medicine. There's no way around it. We've dug a hole for ourselves because we haven't invested in education and technology to the degree we should have. We've wasted both money and standing on unnecessary wars. |
Afghanistan was unnecessary? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| [ The only difference is with Barack we'll at least have competent leadership until we get to the real suffering. |
Bit of a bold statement, seeing as he has no real experience. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Bit of a bold statement, seeing as he has no real experience. |
But then McCain's experience is limited to the legislative side of things. Executive experience can only really be gained in governorships, big business and maybe top dog in the military. |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Czarjorge wrote: |
What do you suggest? Soylent geezer?
Seriously, though, the only real option is socialized medicine. There's no way around it. We've dug a hole for ourselves because we haven't invested in education and technology to the degree we should have. We've wasted both money and standing on unnecessary wars. |
Afghanistan was unnecessary? |
Fair enough. Unnecessary war. When we attack Iran, that'll be an unnecessary war. |
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