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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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 Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:29 am Post subject: Sen. Clinton: Go on without me |
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Clinton demonstrated maturity, wisdom, and perspective in last night's speech.
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She said some nice words about Obama in her speech�yeah, she was proud to support him, fine�but then she switched into a litany of issues she'd fought for and people who had placed their faith in her. It was all about her, it sounded like. But then, with that question, she pivoted. The litany she'd just recited became an argument for Obama instead of a list of reasons to vote for her.
Tuesday night, the Democrats celebrated Ted Kennedy. He was in Clinton's shoes in 1980, after his hard-fought battle with Jimmy Carter. When he gave his convention speech, he mentioned Jimmy Carter once, congratulating him only in passing. Ronald Reagan never mentioned Gerald Ford in 1976. Hillary Clinton named Barack Obama more than a dozen times. Kennedy's famous speech declared that the dream will never die. Clinton's pitch was that the dream cannot live without electing Barack Obama. |
The only part I don't get was Dickerson's remark about 'rehabilitation.' Edwards may need rehabilitation. But Sen. Clinton just fights until the end. And she's shown she is a team player. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:42 am Post subject: |
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I have a hard time watching any political speech with out getting a feeling similar to the one that Michael Scott gives me when he's acting like a clown. But her speech was quite good, she gave it very well, and I found myself watching intently. The talk on C-Span was how "Presidential" she looked, and that might have been the point.
Either way, the wind is out of Obama's sails, and it is all about him now. The right keeps digging up more and more radical connections from his past and no amount of Clinton lectures can fix that. He did not choose his friends wisely.
http://townhall.com
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Old videos appear to show a radical Muslim named Khalid Al-Mansour helped Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama gain acceptance into Harvard Law.
Civil rights activist Percy Sutton recalled being solicited by a man named Dr. Khalid A-Mansour to write a letter of recommendation to help Obama gain acceptance into Harvard Law in this undated television interview available HERE.
"I was introduced to him [Obama] by a friend who was raising money for him and the friends name was Dr. Khalid al Mansour from Texas,� Sutton said. �He is the principle adviser to one of the world's richest men. He told me about Obama. He wrote to me about him and his introduction was 'there is a young man that has applied to Harvard and I know that you have a few friends left there because you used to go up there to speak, would you please write a letter in support of him?'...I wrote a letter in support of him to my friends at Harvard saying to them I thought there was a genius that was going to be available and I sure hoped they would treat him kindly."
There are many videos available on the internet featuring a man named Khalid Al-Mansour, who describes himself as an author, scholar and businessman, blasting the Jewish culture and Christianity and preaching the virtues of Islam, reminiscent of the controversial clips discovered of Obama�s longtime friend and former pastor Rev. Jeremiah Wright that rocked headlines earlier this spring.
In one of the videos, titled �Christians Designed Discrimination� uploaded by a YouTube user named IslamStudios, Al-Mansour said, �White people don't feel bad, whatever you do to them, they deserve it, God wants you to do it and that's when you cut out the nose, cut out the ears, take flesh out of their body, don't worry because God wants you to do it."
He also draws lines between whites and African Americans. �The Christianity that white people got and the Christianity that black people got was not the same,� he added. |
The connection with BO is weak but I doubt the "white working class voters" will care beyond the rhetoric. |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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Do you really believe he's not going to win? Do you honestly think McCain still has a shot? C'mon.
It's starting to come across as delusional rather than sour grapes. The average voter couldn't care less about all these far right foot stomping stories. It's NOWHERE in the news here. Not even on Fox, and they're clearly in the bag for McCain even moreso that MSNBC is in the bag for Obama. If you want to hold out hope that it'll work, good on you, that's what the new President of the US is all about.
In all seriousness, Clinton did alot to earn back points she'd lost on me. It doesn't hurt that Obama's lost a lot of points for making the constant Dem mistake of tacking to the middle. Her speech was powerful, if a bit cliched. She did have a couple brilliant turns of phrase though. The McCain and Bush are twins in the Twin City was brilliant. The No Way chant was a good touch. It's been a good news day listening to how the McCain camp has been scrambling to respond to a speech that hurt them more than their rerunning of Hillary's indictments of Obama could have possibly hurt their opponent.
Best of all PUMA has been shut down. Clinton clearly made the case that any Dem that would vote for McCain is no Dem at all. These folks were ridiculous already as they go on the talking head shows and say they've never voted Rep then their website refers to them as Reagan Dems, (Uh, don't you guys know what that means?) but they'd been getting alot of press. All that's been put aside and they'll vote how they'll vote, but Clinton has freed up Obama to court the independents, Biden to go after the Rust Belt, and the Clintons to shore up the base.
My prediction is Obama with 60% of the popular. Not a landslide, but in today's evenly split America it would be a strong mandate. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Czarjorge wrote: |
My prediction is Obama with 60% of the popular. Not a landslide, but in today's evenly split America it would be a strong mandate. |
60% of the popular would be a landslide, and it won't happen. Third parties will more likely whittle Obama's mandate to a plurality. He might get 50.1%, and he should be proud if he gets a majority. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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Also important, when considering B. Obama's possible victory on a plurality, to track how the Senate and the House change. What kind of strength or influence might he possess with respect to Congress?
Last edited by Gopher on Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| The only third party of any note that isn't throwing it's lot in with Obama is the Libertarian party. Most people that might vote Libertarian remember 2000 and won't take that risk. Those that will vote Lib are most likely going to be McCain voters not Obama voters. I may be five points high, but I expect Obama to have a clear plurality. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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You speak too confidently on how "people who vote Libertarian" will behave this November. We are not even certain how at least some of those Democrats who supported H. Clinton in the primaries will behave at this point.
Too much wishful-thinking on your part, then. Remember: however it might look today: it ain't over 'till it's over. Approximately two-and-a-half months remain in the "unknown" column at this point, Czarjorge.
Last edited by Gopher on Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Czarjorge wrote: |
| The only third party of any note that isn't throwing it's lot in with Obama is the Libertarian party. Most people that might vote Libertarian remember 2000 and won't take that risk. Those that will vote Lib are most likely going to be McCain voters not Obama voters. I may be five points high, but I expect Obama to have a clear plurality. |
I bet you bragging rights that Obama doesn't hit 51%. If he hits 51% you win bragging rights, and if he only makes 50.99999%, I win bragging rights. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| He's gonna lose. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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Say it does finish that close, Kuros: who do you want to wager will ask for a recount first?  |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| He's gonna lose. |
I doubt it. Have you seen the electoral map projections? I think Obama's geographic advantage is so durable that he could even win with less of a popular vote total than McCain.
Virginia, Colorado, and Florida will all be squeakers, but Obama should pick up Ohio and New Hampshire. |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Czarjorge wrote: |
| The only third party of any note that isn't throwing it's lot in with Obama is the Libertarian party. Most people that might vote Libertarian remember 2000 and won't take that risk. Those that will vote Lib are most likely going to be McCain voters not Obama voters. I may be five points high, but I expect Obama to have a clear plurality. |
I bet you bragging rights that Obama doesn't hit 51%. If he hits 51% you win bragging rights, and if he only makes 50.99999%, I win bragging rights. |
Deal. You'll probably win, but this is the first time since Obama clinched it I've felt good about his campaign and I'm gonna remain positive. With both Clinton and Biden on board things are looking really good.
| Mises wrote: |
| He's gonna lose. |
It's that kind of blind faith that has been screwing up the Reps for two generations. |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
You speak too confidently on how "people who vote Libertarian" will behave this November. We are not even certain how at least some of those Democrats who supported H. Clinton in the primaries will behave at this point.
Too much wishful-thinking on your part, then. Remember: however it might look today: it ain't over 'till it's over. Approximately two-and-a-half months remain in the "unknown" column at this point, Czarjorge. |
Well, people that vote Lib are going to vote Lib, aren't they. This is the first time ever for the Lib party to get some face time. They'll vote for Barr, but Dems aren't going to jump ship for Barr unless they've already decided to NOT vote for Obama. Those Dems are lost anyway, and the one's that Clinton can't bring back, and I'd wager that 80%+ have been won back by Hillsy's speech last night. She'll make further inroads in the next two months.
And I don't think it's wishful thinking. The Obama campaign is starting to get it's shit together. I almost wonder if the lay back they've been doing for the last six weeks hasn't been calculated. Sure, the press has been talking about Obama, but the campaign has been pretty quiet. All that money has been saved for the end run, and expect a storm of adds and appearances from the team now that all cylinders are firing. I expect Obama is going to let Biden, both Clintons, Richardson, and maybe even Gore to do a lot of his talking for him. He's even got Dodd out shilling. Obama gets to stay positive and let these other Dems do the dirty work for him, something McCain isn't going to be able to do. Factor in the eventual debates, and this thing is over. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Czarjorge wrote: |
| Mises wrote: |
| He's gonna lose. |
It's that kind of blind faith that has been screwing up the Reps for two generations. |
It isn't blind faith. He is up 1%. 1 damn %. After 8 years of epic mismanagement and a competitor that has mimicked Bush with increasing frequency. In the middle of a terrible recession, with inflation, insecurity. 1%.
He is toast. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Czarjorge wrote: |
| Mises wrote: |
| He's gonna lose. |
It's that kind of blind faith that has been screwing up the Reps for two generations. |
It isn't blind faith. He is up 1%. 1 damn %. After 8 years of epic mismanagement and a competitor that has mimicked Bush with increasing frequency. In the middle of a terrible recession, with inflation, insecurity. 1%.
He is toast. |
Most polls and projections are based off of previous or 'likely' voters. My guess is that Obama will bring new voters into the fold, especially African-Americans and young people. His organization is quite stunning and the only reason he doesn't have a money lead already is because Howard Dean bankrupted his party and the Obama Presidential campaign is financing the DNC.
Obama will win, he'll win by Clinton 1996 electoral numbers, but his popular vote lead will be pretty close. |
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