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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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 Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
FiveEagles:
According to the bible, the antichrist is a guy who will deceive the multitudes into worshiping him. But in any discussion of the Dalai Lama that I have heard, there is usually a contingent of people saying that he is a flake. At the very least, people will usually roll their eyes at his Hollywood pandering.
So no, I dont think that the Dalai Lama has anywhere near the approval rating required to be the antichrist. Even if the Rapture were to take place, there would still be a lot of secular cynics left behind who would think that the guy was a joke. |
I don't think so. When the Dalai Lama came to Vancouver, the papers announced, "the one living God". Even at the conference, with 20,000 in attendance, many worshipped him. Many including profs from UBC.
Look at Oprah and her cult following. Millions entered into her trances with Ekhart. Many secular cynics will not have the courage to stand up to this when it becomes manditory. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNRM1gS3F7g
Oprah is a big supporter of the Dalai Lama and so are many other major starts. His platform of world peace will continue to gain power and popularity. |
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gangpae
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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^^^^
NUTBAR. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: The Dali Lama; the false prophet of the bible? |
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| deadman wrote: |
Thanks for the reply.
| fiveeagles wrote: |
| deadman wrote: |
"The Swedish government has announced plans to clamp down hard on religious education. It will soon become illegal even for private faith schools to teach religious doctrines as if they were true."
So tell me, fiveeagles, will this in any way interfere with an individual's ability to pursue spirituality and have direct experience of God?
Personally, I think it won't, (and in fact will have the opposite effect).
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Absolutely it will. Freedom of religion is one of the keys to a strong democracy. Take away our right to be able to express what we believe is truth leads us down the road to communism or even worse nazism. |
Indeed. But the freedom of religion a democracy extends to organisations is sometimes not extended to the individuals within the organisation.
1. We are right. All others are wrong.
2. All members will obey our rules, and believe in everything we tell them or suffer penalties.
3. You may not alter or question the teachings of the church. They are perfect and infallible.
Any religion that incorporates beliefs such as these is no different from the religiously intolerant society. The inquisitions are an example of where that road leads.
A government has as much obligation to protect its children from indoctrination from these religious organisations as it does from communists or nazis
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You are right and that's why we have the separation of church and state. Thus giving the state the power to remove hateful groups from society. For example, England is requiring all immigrants to have a new level of English before they can come in. This in essence removes most of the hateful types. Generally, those who want to kill westerners are not going to want to learn English.
However, it's not the governments right to determine what is truth. That is the people's right. It's one of our strongest rights. When a government decides this then it becomes totalitarian. Which will lead us to the one world government. Governments deciding on what they know as truth. Very evil. |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: Re: The Dali Lama; the false prophet of the bible? |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
However, it's not the governments right to determine what is truth. That is the people's right. It's one of our strongest rights. When a government decides this then it becomes totalitarian. Which will lead us to the one world government. Governments deciding on what they know as truth. Very evil. |
This seems to largely agree with keeping religion out of the classroom. Which way are you? |
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gangpae
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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^^^^
five-eagles
Psycho. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| gangpae wrote: |
^^^^
five-eagles
Psycho. |
I really doubt you would be saying that to my face. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: The Dali Lama; the false prophet of the bible? |
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| Underwaterbob wrote: |
| fiveeagles wrote: |
However, it's not the governments right to determine what is truth. That is the people's right. It's one of our strongest rights. When a government decides this then it becomes totalitarian. Which will lead us to the one world government. Governments deciding on what they know as truth. Very evil. |
This seems to largely agree with keeping religion out of the classroom. Which way are you? |
The government wants to tell Religous schools what they can teach. Religious schools should be able to teach whatever they want without interference from the government. |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:47 pm Post subject: Re: The Dali Lama; the false prophet of the bible? |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
| Underwaterbob wrote: |
| fiveeagles wrote: |
However, it's not the governments right to determine what is truth. That is the people's right. It's one of our strongest rights. When a government decides this then it becomes totalitarian. Which will lead us to the one world government. Governments deciding on what they know as truth. Very evil. |
This seems to largely agree with keeping religion out of the classroom. Which way are you? |
The government wants to tell Religous schools what they can teach. Religious schools should be able to teach whatever they want without interference from the government. |
Religious private schools sure. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:26 pm Post subject: Re: The Dali Lama; the false prophet of the bible? |
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| Underwaterbob wrote: |
| fiveeagles wrote: |
| Underwaterbob wrote: |
| fiveeagles wrote: |
However, it's not the governments right to determine what is truth. That is the people's right. It's one of our strongest rights. When a government decides this then it becomes totalitarian. Which will lead us to the one world government. Governments deciding on what they know as truth. Very evil. |
This seems to largely agree with keeping religion out of the classroom. Which way are you? |
The government wants to tell Religous schools what they can teach. Religious schools should be able to teach whatever they want without interference from the government. |
Religious private schools sure. |
The Swedish government has announced plans to clamp down hard on religious education. It will soon become illegal even for private faith schools to teach religious doctrines as if they were true. In an interesting twist on the American experience, prayer will remain legal in schools - after all, it has no truth value. But everything that takes place on the curriculum's time will have to be secular. "Pupils must be protected from every sort of fundamentalism," said the minister for schools, Jan Bj�rklund.
Creationism and ID are explicitly banned but so is proselytising even in religious education classes. The Qur'an may not be taught as if it is true even in Muslim independent schools, nor may the Bible in Christian schools. |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:07 pm Post subject: Re: The Dali Lama; the false prophet of the bible? |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
The Swedish government has announced plans to clamp down hard on religious education. It will soon become illegal even for private faith schools to teach religious doctrines as if they were true. In an interesting twist on the American experience, prayer will remain legal in schools - after all, it has no truth value. But everything that takes place on the curriculum's time will have to be secular. "Pupils must be protected from every sort of fundamentalism," said the minister for schools, Jan Bj�rklund.
Creationism and ID are explicitly banned but so is proselytising even in religious education classes. The Qur'an may not be taught as if it is true even in Muslim independent schools, nor may the Bible in Christian schools. |
My bad. I'm getting the threads mixed up.
If a private religious school can have its students meet the same standards of education as public school as well as teach whichever doctrine they prefer then I see no problem with religion being taught there. Trying to protect people from an idea is an exercise in futility. If parents want their children to grow up with a "scientific" background in ID and creationism, fine. Just don't expect their ideas to hold up in the international science community once they graduate.
EDIT: What the?? This isn't the Swedish banning religion from school thread. I haven't got the threads mixed up, fiveeagles does. |
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deadman
Joined: 27 May 2006
Location: Suwon
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:29 am Post subject: Re: The Dali Lama; the false prophet of the bible? |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
You are right and that's why we have the separation of church and state. Thus giving the state the power to remove hateful groups from society. For example, England is requiring all immigrants to have a new level of English before they can come in. This in essence removes most of the hateful types. Generally, those who want to kill westerners are not going to want to learn English.
However, it's not the governments right to determine what is truth. That is the people's right. It's one of our strongest rights. When a government decides this then it becomes totalitarian. Which will lead us to the one world government. Governments deciding on what they know as truth. Very evil. |
My understanding of the article is not that they said what the truth is. but simply that any particular religious cannot be taught as "the truth", as "fact", in school.
Do you expect the school system to adopt a position that holds that several mutually exclusive religions are all the completely true inviolable Word of God? That's obviously absurd, especially to a child.
Do you want special treatment for your religion? Then what about freedom of religion?
The only reasonable position, from the perspective of all of humanity, is to allow all to be taught, none to be touted as the "one true faith" to vulnerable children ("Believe this or suffer in hell").
I appreciate you taking the time to debate. A few (loaded, admittedly!) questions if I may, to help clarify our common ground and differences:
1. Is your faith the one true faith or are there many?
2. Will people who follow other religions go to hell?
3. If an individual has a conflict between what they experience of God, and what they are taught of God (at your church), then which is more important, the experience or the Word of God?
4. Does "freedom of religion" extend to individuals within your church (ie freedom to disagree without penalty)?
Re Q4: A nazi or communistmay say "You have absolute freedom to do and practice as you wish. There are penalties for not doing what we tell you, but we won't make you suffer for eternity!" |
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deadman
Joined: 27 May 2006
Location: Suwon
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:53 am Post subject: Re: The Dali Lama; the false prophet of the bible? |
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| Quote: |
| However, it's not the governments right to determine what is truth. That is the people's right. It's one of our strongest rights. |
I agree, and I will go one further:
It's not any church's right to determine what is truth.
That's between an individual and God.
For an earthly organisation to usurp God in that relationship is arrogant bordering on blasphemous.
Some kiddie fiddler sitting on a golden throne has no more right to determine truth today than the pharisees did in Jesus' day.
Some church teachings are helpful to an induvidual's spiritual development, others are not.
All are corrupted to some degree by the pressures of "doing business" in the material world - keeping customers, getting enough revenue, defending against the competition.
The individual should have the ultimate say in what is true or not, according to his feeling. This feeling is God's inspiration and acts as a bullsh*t detector that should be developed as part of a spiritual practice.
If God can inspire prophets, and then subsequently inspire the legion of scribes, translators, editors that bring us the Bible as it is today, then he can certainly inspire anyone who is willing to listen, and in a much more direct and trustworthy way.
I think evanglelical christians and missionaries are well meaning agents of corrupt and false teachings, and don't support their meddlesome and ultimately self serving activities.
These are just my opinions, fiveeagles. I'd rather you replied to the previous post first. |
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endo
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul...my home
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:32 am Post subject: |
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The Bible is all about drug use and star worship hidden in code.
It's awesome!
And I'm f-ing serious too!
The arrival of Jesus signified the Age of Pices (Jesus fish), and his return (roughly 2,200 years later when the axis of the Earth tilts and we are directed away from the North Star) will signify the Age of Aquarius (the water bearer).
Ezekial was doing mushrooms on the top of the mountain when the ngle came to him in his psychedelic stupor.
Moses did the same with the burning bush. Again going up the mountain where the mushrooms grow and comming down high as f-uck. By the way Moses represented the end of the Age of Taurus (stop worshiping that golden bull!) and the beginning of the Age of Ares (symbolozied by his use the the ram horn in his clothing.
The Forbidden Fruit and the "snake" that delivered it represents the mushroom emerging from the tree base under the groud, surfacing, and openinging its mount while delivering its fruit, "the cap of the mushroom".
The Bible is f-ing awesome!!!!!!
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deadman
Joined: 27 May 2006
Location: Suwon
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| endo wrote: |
The Bible is all about drug use and star worship hidden in code.
It's awesome!
And I'm f-ing serious too!
The arrival of Jesus signified the Age of Pices (Jesus fish), and his return (roughly 2,200 years later when the axis of the Earth tilts and we are directed away from the North Star) will signify the Age of Aquarius (the water bearer).
Ezekial was doing mushrooms on the top of the mountain when the ngle came to him in his psychedelic stupor.
Moses did the same with the burning bush. Again going up the mountain where the mushrooms grow and comming down high as f-uck. By the way Moses represented the end of the Age of Taurus (stop worshiping that golden bull!) and the beginning of the Age of Ares (symbolozied by his use the the ram horn in his clothing.
The Forbidden Fruit and the "snake" that delivered it represents the mushroom emerging from the tree base under the groud, surfacing, and openinging its mount while delivering its fruit, "the cap of the mushroom".
The Bible is f-ing awesome!!!!!!
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Word!
I'm listening to a Terrence Mckenna talk (The Tree of Knowledge). If I may quote at length...
http://www.thegnosticoracle.com/complete_terence_mckenna_at.htm
| Quote: |
And [the psychedelic experience] is a mystery. It is not going to be reduced to the firing of synapses, or repressed sexuality, or memories of the day.
It is the very thing that all these religions have been yammering about. It's there. It's real. I mean, if you think the world is empty of adventure, then you just havent been hanging out with the right crowd. I mean, on a saturday night, within confines of your own apartment, on five grams of psilocybin mushrooms [dried] in silent darkness, I guarantee you, you will believe that ferdinand magellan should take second place... to you.
You will see things which no human being has ever seen before, and that no human being will see again. That's how big that universe is.
The incredibly constricted space time locus of the here and now that evolution has forced upon us for survival purposes is simply one point in an apparently infinite hologram of explorable data that is the human world...
This is accessible to any one of us who will but apply the method. And if you are not willing to apply the method, you can sweep up around the ashram until hell freezes over and not understand what is going on!
I'm sorry to be so hard on religion. I think It has it's place. It's place is the inspiration of ethical behavior. Religion should teach ethical behavior. But it has very very little to say about the mystery of being other than that it is there. And that's not practicing religion. Practicing religion is dancing with the mystery. Losing and finding yourself in the mystery.
And people often say to me "How does this relate to other forms of spiritual work?", and the answer is, "maybe not at all". I've certainly taken a lot of psychedelics, and I see no signs of spiritual attainment or ethical perfection. But I do know it is ours. It belongs to us. We are the creatures of mind, and 95%of what mind is lies on the other side of the psychedelic boundary. |
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gangpae
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| Nuttiest thread ever. |
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