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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:42 pm Post subject: Apology is not good enough |
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Why is it, that when I send a student to their Homeroom teacher for punishment, all I get is an apology from the student.
Its like, "Apologize and everything will be better."
I don't want a damn apology. I want the students to get the hint, that I will not tolerate their crap in my classroom. |
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the foystein
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Sent a note home to Mom. Every Korea, regardless of age, is scared of their Mom. |
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Zutronius
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Location: Suncheon
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| I like this! |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| the foystein wrote: |
| Sent a note home to Mom. Every Korea, regardless of age, is scared of their Mom. |
My 6th graders are smart. They know never to show anything I send to their parents. . They'll just forge a signature and bring it back. No proof that the parents ever saw it. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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I think it's much better just to punish the students yourself unless it's for some kind of behaviour that seems sort of inexplicable or a child who has a messed up family situation; in those cases it's probably better to involve a teacher who knows them very well. Otherwise devise your own punishments with the staff room as the next port of call if they don't cooperate with / respond to that.
Rarely involving homeroom teachers also makes it a much more effective punishment - there's much more fear of the unknown. And when you do, take them to the HR teacher in person and make sure he / she knows from you exactly what happened. Last term I only did it on one occasion with two students who were being defiant, and perhaps the worst part of it for them was that all the other teachers got to see that they were so bad that even the happy-clappy foreigner dragged them down to the staff room, as they knelt outside waiting for dam-eam seonsangnim to arrive. All their classmates got to sit through the next block wondering what was happening to naughty little Suwan and Mingyeong - and the Hanja teacher who was teaching the next block actually seemed quite happy that I was taking them off her hands for a while, lol. I'm not even sure what exactly happened to them (though I have an idea) but last week when I was standing over them telling them to complete their handout they thought it better to do so. Getting them to do something other than sit through class sulking with a 'I fucking hate school' look on their faces will be the next and potentially insurmountable challenge. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| Getting them to do something other than sit through class sulking with a 'I fucking hate school' look on their faces will be the next and potentially insurmountable challenge. |
I'd much prefer that than them passing notes and shouting across the classroom, "Su bin! Su bin!" and throw the notes across the classroom, blatantly.
Its the 6th grade girls that are the problem. The boys fear me and are kept in line. The girls don't care. They know I can't lay a hand on them. Even if I shout in their faces to do something, they just laugh.
If I tell "Mina" to put her hands up", there is no way I can make her. She knows I can't forcibly put her hands in the air and keep them there.
My 6th grade girls know the system. They know that the teachers aren't going to use corporal punishment. They know that their parents will bail them out of any situation.
The parents come in with the attitude that the teacher is at fault for their child misbehaving.
So, at my school, its a lose lose situation. The principal and VP don't help matters. They pander to the PTA like lapdogs.
You should see the looks I get from the girls when I tell them to do something.
Me: "Open your book to page 50."
Mina: "Ok ok ok ok". Nods in my direction quickly, rolls her eyes, and continues chatting away with her friends.
I come up right next to her desk, try to open the book from her and she snatches the book from my hands, gives me a look like I'm a thief, and then continues to chat with her friends. I get in her face and I say. "Open your book to page 50.""
She laughs in my face, looks at her friends and say, " Moosin yegi ya? Mot ara dul uh suh" (What is he saying, I don't undersatnd.)
Even though, I know for a fact, she understands what I say.
That scenario happens with almost all of my 6th grade girls. They have no respect for me or any of the other Korean teachers. They look at all the teachers with contempt. When the homeroom teachers try to do something about it, their parents compain to the principal and the principal comes down on the Homeroom teachers.
At my old school, I handled all the discipline and everything was fine. I talked to the new native teacher at my old school and he says he has no problems with the students whatsoever.
I haven't come down on them 100% yet. I'm fluent in Korean, and I can give a lecture in Korean that will make all the kids cry. I haven't used that card here because I'm trying really hard to speak English 100% of the time.
I feel like, the moment I use Korean to discipline them, I've failed as an English teacher. I would be sending the message that English is not important.
BTW, my coteacher does her best. She really does. I can't think of anything else she can do, short of bringing out a beat stick, to get these kids in line. She's used every trick in the book that doesn't involve a beat down, and they've all failed.
Back to my original post, I'm sick of an apology letter. I want change. I want it so that they never have reason to give me an apology. I'm almost at the breaking point too. Today, I was so close to yelling,
"YA! 이 나쁜 놈들. 너는 다 죽는다. 빨리 시끄러워!", pick up a chair, throw it across the room. PIck up a desk, flip it over, and then get in the faces of each trouble making student and yell at them drill sergeant style in Korean.
I'd probably make a few kids piss their pants. Alas, I didn't do it. I don't want to be that teacher. However, their attitude and behavior is way out of control.
I realize this post has a million grammar mistakes. I'm still wound up over the behavior of the 6th graders today. Kinda hard to write coherently when you have the urge to break something. |
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cheeseface
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Location: Ssyangnyeon Shi
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
Its the 6th grade girls that are the problem. The boys fear me and are kept in line. The girls don't care. They know I can't lay a hand on them. Even if I shout in their faces to do something, they just laugh. |
I would like to thank you for bringing this problem up....
It's something that I have to face nearly every year, usually it's students that I have taught for a few years and then they change into these little biatches..........
6th grade girls are hell on earth, if anyone can supply a solution to them I would be a very happy teacher.....  |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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I think it's fantastic that you're trying to do your lessons 100% in English and not resorting to becoming a Korean-yelling drone. But it sounds like you're going to have to come up with something that's more effective; you can talk about whatever motivational strategies you want but the fact of the matter is that in some teaching environments you have to make clear to certain kids that the consequences of doing certain things makes them not worth doing. Those who want to pretend that you can magically turn any school into a model of civility can call me a child abuser all they want, but there's a pressure point on the upper arm just below the shoulder that really, really hurts when skinny 12-year-old arms get squeezed there. I doubt you'd have to do it more than once before bratty little Mina decides it's in her best interest to stand quietly at the back holding her hands in the air for yelling a throwing a note across the classroom.
But seriously don't do the blow-a-gasket-in-the-classroom routine. It might get you a quiet class for a while but screaming and throwing a chair will just totally lower your esteem in everyone's eyes. Next time just get the worst troublemakers out of the classroom, give yourself a few minutes to calm down, and then punish them in a stern but orderly manner.
For now go get a Hite pitcher, kick back in front of the TV, and imagine those grade six brats next year at my middle school with the disciplinary teacher - a 50-ish, 110-pound woman whom 12-year-old girls are inexplicably terrified of - barking orders at them as they have to wax the floor with their hands. |
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ardis
Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
You should see the looks I get from the girls when I tell them to do something.
Me: "Open your book to page 50."
Mina: "Ok ok ok ok". Nods in my direction quickly, rolls her eyes, and continues chatting away with her friends.
I come up right next to her desk, try to open the book from her and she snatches the book from my hands, gives me a look like I'm a thief, and then continues to chat with her friends. I get in her face and I say. "Open your book to page 50.""
She laughs in my face, looks at her friends and say, " Moosin yegi ya? Mot ara dul uh suh" (What is he saying, I don't undersatnd.)
Even though, I know for a fact, she understands what I say.
That scenario happens with almost all of my 6th grade girls. They have no respect for me or any of the other Korean teachers. They look at all the teachers with contempt. When the homeroom teachers try to do something about it, their parents compain to the principal and the principal comes down on the Homeroom teachers.
[/i] |
I absolutely LOATHE the "okay okay okay" and the return to what he/she was previously doing: chatting or doodling on his/her paper. Every time they do that now, I just stand there so they know they can't continue with their fun time. If they still don't get it, I slam my roll book hard on their desk so it makes a loud smacking sound (they usually give a little jumpy), smile, put the pen in their hand, and sit there, helping them with every single freaking letter if I have to. I'll sit with them for 2 or 3 questions on a worksheet. That much personal attention from the waegukin usually freaks them out enough to shut the hell up if the next time I give them the "stop talking" look. |
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Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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Do you have a digital camera. Why not try to catch them misbehaving and secretly film it. Don't even tell them what you intend to do with the footage. This will make them really paranoid about where this footage could end up.
Just the next time they act up stand there stone faced and film in. Then don't say anything.
I once did this with a cell phone and the kid got really paranoid. I'm sure a digital camera will work wonders. |
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OneWayTraffic
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| Why not call the parents yourself? |
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OneWayTraffic
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
| the foystein wrote: |
| Sent a note home to Mom. Every Korea, regardless of age, is scared of their Mom. |
My 6th graders are smart. They know never to show anything I send to their parents. . They'll just forge a signature and bring it back. No proof that the parents ever saw it. |
So the next day, after receiving that note back, you pull out your phone and ring her Mum in front of her and the class.
"Mrs Kim, I sent you a note. Did you receive it? Oh that's strange, it has your signature on it....What shall we do about this lying?"
Probably only need to do that once. |
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spliff
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| Move her seat to a table w/ all boys or a girl w/ lice. |
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Tobias
Joined: 02 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:39 am Post subject: Do they? |
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Can you get a TASER in SK?
The digi-cam/video is the best solution. |
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KoreanAmbition
Joined: 03 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:56 am Post subject: |
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Oh you need to have some fun with this one.
I think Mina needs a little after school "visit" from some badass 7th grade girls at the neighbouring school.
The next day spend a few minutes giving a brief description of a "beat down" as well as "laying the smack down." Don't even look at her the entire time. |
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